A meme I can totally get behind from tenacious_snail:
In response to some really fun, helpful, eye-opening discussions I would like to propose the following.
I’m going to post three rejections to a sexual/romantic advance. I recognize that no response is suitable for all situations, but the idea is to come up with some that work, so that there is one available when needed. You tell me if you think I’ve managed to say no gracefully. Post three rejections in your own LJ (or find a works-for-you variation on Learning How to Say No Gracefully). The presumption is that the person who is attracted to you is not some random cyclist on Caltrain, but is someone who is a friend or acquaintance.
1. Unfortunately, at this point in time I don’t have time to see anyone new because I don’t have enough time to pay sufficient attention to the people I am already involved with. I thank you for the invitation though! (This is probably what I say most of the time. This has been a very hard won battle for me to be able to say. For a while I wasn’t sleeping because I spent so much time trying to go out with everyone who asked me out. I was still very much feeling like the ugly duckling who had to accept every morsal of attention because surely there weren’t very many people who were likely to be interested in me.)
2. Thank you very much for sharing your interest with me; I appreciate it because I know it is hard to do. I don’t really feel the same way about you though. (I can feel my inner self cowering as I even type that.)
3. I know that I flirt with you like crazy, but the flirting is as far as I want things to go. I am very sorry if you feel misled. Is it possible for us to just enjoy the energy of flirting with one another? (Telling someone this blew up in my face once. I was told that I ruined the mystery of “what might be” involved with the flirting. *sigh* I can’t win.)
Several points. First, there’s a difference between “I don’t want to with you” and “I’d like to, but I can’t find a way to make it happen”. The latter invites me to help find a way and/or to be patient. The former closes the door. Each of your responses confuses these.
Second, it’s helpful if you can find something to respond positively to. I used to boast that I could negotiate a scene with anyone, though I considered miniature golf or “we both walk away convinced that we aren’t right for each other” to be successful negotiations. The frame here is not trying to find a way to gracefully decline involvement, but instead to try to find the right _level_ of involvement.
Third, dissappointment is not pain. You are not causing anyone undue pain when you decline. Dissappointment is not your responsibility. It’s not like running into someone with your car, which _would_ be your responsibility. Your responsibility is only to communicate your needs and limits as clearly as possible; to commit only to those things to which you can follow through. Doing this makes the other person’s life easier and is actually a gift.
I’ve never had the “must take all comers” problem, but these are three issues that I’ve worked through at various times. While they may not be your issues, I’m certain that they are common issues and that I’m not the only person who has ever struggled with them.
Onto the responses…
#1 – this can be a polite response. As worded, it’s not clear whether you mean me to be patient and/or to help you find a way, or whether I should stop asking. If you want me to stop asking, omit the “unfortunately” and the “thank you”. It’s ok to act somewhat dissappointed, though. If you want me to be more patient, you might tell me when to ask again. “Maybe after this-particularly-stressful-thing passes.”
#2 – this is a bomb. It’s all negative. You need to add something like, “I’d like to continue our relationship as it is for now” or I’m not even going to want to be in the same room with you.
#3 – Drop the apology. You aren’t wrong and you haven’t misled. Drop the “don’t want” phrase – it’s just negative. Instead, tell me what you _do_ want. “Can we just keep flirting for now?”
These all presume that you really do want some level of interaction with the person asking. As you wrote, a friend. If the person really is a creepy stranger, then a final, close-the-door, “No, thank you” or even an astonished stare might be appropriate.
Think of it this way… it’s not about whether you are accepting or rejecting A Relationship, or even sex. It’s about negotiating a possible change in a relationship (little r) that you already have. If you like the relationship you have now better than the possible change, then say so.
Thank you for your constructive criticism. I will ponder this more.
Think of it this way… it’s not about whether you are accepting or rejecting A Relationship, or even sex. It’s about negotiating a possible change in a relationship (little r) that you already have. If you like the relationship you have now better than the possible change, then say so.
I really, really like this viewpoint. Obviously using it works best if both people share that perspective, but aside from that, it’s very personally clear.
I have to agree with him about the mixed messages in those responses. They all seem to be saying “This is a ‘no’ that might someday mean ‘yes’.” In the first case I know that using that response has been problematic for a friend of mine, who met someone on the understanding that they could have the occasional (or even just one) bout of hot sex but ended up with the ‘rejected’ person offering opinions about with whom he should break up in order to make time to begin dating her. (Eww.)
I don’t get a “mixed message” from #2 or #3 at all. They’re both pretty clearly saying “I don’t want to have sex with you”. says that #2 is pretty negative, and I’d have to agree that it pretty much only says “I don’t want to have sex with you”. #3 is a little more like a sincere version of “let’s just be friends”, but any person who takes #2 or #3 to be an invitation to try again later is clueless.
Hmmm, I think I’ll revise my opinion of #2. It is pretty clear.
#3 is much more clear with‘s editing….people can get distracted from the message by the apologetics. I’ve told essentially this same thing to someone and had him think that it meant potential in the future, if not now, because otherwise why would I enjoy the flirting with him in the first place? Also, what was the point of flirting with someone with whom I have no intentions of sleeping?
He was clueless, yes. But people like him exist in the world, and merely giving them #3 would not serve as a long-term rejection. Maybe that’s okay — people do change their opinions over time.
I really hate saying no. I hate it I hate it I hate it. It hurts me to have to say it. I know how hard it is to ask for what you want and I don’t want to be someone that pushes others to be afraid to ask.
At the same time: a lot more people want me than I want. I don’t really know how to deal with this. I literally, physically feel bad when I say no to someone, even when I don’t want them.
Right now I want to crawl out of my skin to get away from the anxiety of even thinking about saying ‘no.’
So don’t say “no”. Say “yes” to _something_, though not necessarily the something for which they’ve asked.
The dreaded, “Lets be friends.”
I think “let’s be friends” is usually dreaded because it arrives during a sexual relationship and is used as a euphemism for “let’s stop having sex”.
In this case, we’re talking about “let’s continue as we are”, which, imo, is considerably different.
“I enjoy your company, but no thank you.”
Please realize that people are not as hurt by your ‘no’ as you are hurt by saying it.
I really like your approach to this.
I used to have a very difficult time saying no, but that has changed a lot recently (not sure why). Now, I have an easy time saying no to people I don’t know very well, and a slightly more difficult time with people I am friends with.
I think the pattern I try to go for in a rejection is generally:
a) Accept the invitation as a compliment, and express appreciation if it is appreciated.
b) Politely decline, with a possible reason (“I’m not interested in X,” “I’m not interested in dating,” “I’m not interested in a more serious relationship”)
c) Make an immediate response that assures my interest in a particular kind of relationship, if appropriate (“…, but I’d love to get coffee sometime,” but I enjoy dancing with you; will you be there on Saturday?”)
All good points, imo.
blk: you did a pretty good job a turning me down a few years ago, using all three of the points above. I find it weird that the full impact of the rejection didn’t hit me until about 30 minutes later.
Of all the rejections I have experienced, it was the one that disappointed me the most, but hurt me very little.
#1 says “ask me again later”. That can create problems; if you word it a little more like, it will create fewer problems. You should only use this if you really would sleep with the person, just not now.
There’s probably a slightly better way to say #2, but it gets the message across, without the cliched “let’s just be friends”.
#3 is tough. I don’t flirt with someone I wouldn’t actually say yes or give response #1 to, most of the time. But I understand that other people do. I suspect that anyone who has a hard time dealing with that needs to learn that lesson, even though it can be uncomfortable to be the one who teaches someone one of life’s harsher lessons.
You should save #3 for times when someone you’ve been flirting with either actually steps beyond flirting to proposition you, or starts acting a little stalkerish. If they just keep flirting, enjoy the flirting.
I’m not sure whether we all even mean the same thing when we say “flirt”, never mind have the same sense of when there is or isn’t intent.
I definitely like, fsvo like people I flirt with. And would at least be open to, say, having dinner or coffee with them and consider whether I might be willing to do more. But flirting doesn’t mean that I’ve even thought about having sex with someone, never mind that I’m willing. I might still get to a #1-ish answer (my version) at the end of dinner if they suggest something clearly sexual rather than merely exploratory/datish.
I had the same thought with regards to what various individuals consider flirting.
I need to go read your post on this subject still, but I have generally gathered that you and I are similar about our flirting behavior vs. intentions.
Of the three, #1 would work best for me. #3 isn’t bad, but you don’t flirt with me all that much so I can’t say for sure how I’d feel about it. #2 would be very hard to hear.
I try to save potential partners this sort of trouble. If I’m interested then I’ll say so just once (I very rarely repeat it). I figure that if I hear an expression of interest returned at some point then that’s great, and if I don’t then the interest probably isn’t there. I think I mentioned something about that to you a long time ago. 😉
If the truth of the matter was closer to #2 than #1, I’d rather hear #2.It’ll hurt more in the short run, but being told “This isn’t a good time”, when really, there never will be a good time, is leading me on in a bad way, and will hurt more in the long run.
Yes, you have a point.
I meant to say, you have a point. I would like to find a kinder way to say it though, if there is such a thing. It might be softened more by tone and body language, and by an immediate expression of interest in a relationship on other terms. Something like, “I don’t feel that way about you. I do like you though, and I would enjoy spending more time with you as a friend.”
Certainly, if I’m going to hear #2, I’d prefer it to be done as tactfully as possible. The problem is not diluting the message to #1 while remaining tactful, which, in my experience, can be a problem for people who don’t like to say no.
I have less experience with this sort of thing than most people, so I may not be the best person to offer advice on this subject. But I am going to anyway. 🙂
The first thing is to be clear in your own mind about why you are saying no to the person… there are three basic possibilities, and each requires saying no in a different manner:
I suspect an additional issue in your case may be that you sometimes have difficulty turning people down because you are concerned they may not flirt with you any more. This may be true in some cases, but it is only fair that if you are sure you are not, and will not, be interested in someone, that you make it clear to them. In the long run this will leave everyone better off, including yourself, and if they continue to flirt with you, so much the better.
Hm. I don’t like thinking that about myself. But it might be true.
I am very sorry if you feel misled.
“I’m sorry if…” blows. Because it ducks any responsibility and puts it all on the other person. If someone’s feelings are hurt, you should feel sorry. But like with signing the traffic ticket, you’re not admitting guilt. You’re admitting sorrow. How about “I didn’t mean to mislead you and I’m really sorry it happened” instead?
Another thing that blows: “I’m sorry, but…”. That’s not a real apology. That’s a fake apology that doesn’t actually apologize. (No, you weren’t suggesting it. I just got on a role.)
Off to pick up Bean. I might pop by here again.
“I’m sorry if…” blows. Because it ducks any responsibility and puts it all on the other person.
Only true if the other person has already expressed feeling however wronged.
In this context, I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that the other party has yet expressed, or even necessarily feels led on.
On the other hand, if the recipient responds with an affirmation that they did feel led on then a genuine followup apology is called for.
Avoiding the entire problem, rephrasing “I hope that I hadn’t…” rather than “I’m sorry that” is a good best practice since it prevents saying “I’m sorry” for things one isn’t yet apologizing for.
“I’m sorry if…” can be OK in a context where it might or might not be applicable, I’m think. My bigger issue is with the “you” portion of that: ie, “I’m sorry if/that you feel X.” THAT is the part that I feel is making it the other person’s problem. If I were to use a similar apology, I would rephrase it as “I’m sorry if I misled you,” which takes more responsibility for the action, and leaves out the other person’s feelings totally.
Sometimes it feels like it’s quibbling about bits and quirks, but I think it’s a pretty important thing to understand.
I was totally going to reply to with a suggestion that sie came with hirself: “I hope that I didn’t…”
I still think that “I’m sorry if” is a poor way to phrase things, but I’m willing to accept that it’s a little bit of a button for me. take note – never apologize to me this way! [g]
“Wow, thanks, I’m very flattered, but no thank you” always worked for me. I have yet to have anyone emotionally healthy crumple into a small ball as a result.
As others have said, if you just enjoy the flirting and don’t want it to stop, it probably wouldn’t hurt to add something like “but I enjoy the flirting–is it OK with you if we do that anyway?”
Just remembered something which hasn’t quite been brought up here:
The “three strikes rule” which I first heard in high school. If a guy asks a girl out three times, and she says no all three, regardless of whether she says she’d be interested later, or anything else, she’s not interested in dating the guy. Period. To play the game for maximum effect, guy asks girl out for a specific event. Girl says no, she’s busy, but maybe some other time. After three times, if she still says “maybe some other time”, she’s lying.
This “rule” came about because so many young women don’t like to say no even when they mean no, so they say “no, but”. From the girl’s point of view, she’s avoiding hurting the guy’s feelings. From the guy’s point of view, she’s lying, she’s leading him on, and she’s wasting his time.
Of course, this creates problems if the guy hasn’t heard or absorbed the “three strikes” rule, and assumes that “maybe some other time” really means “maybe some other time”, over and over. The guy then gets frustrated and embittered, while the girls involved get frustrated because they assume that most guys have heard the “three strikes” rule, and think this guy’s a creep for not taking no for an answer, even though they’ve never explicitly said no.