At the direct request/order/suggestion of several friends I walked away from the drama that was blowing up for more than 24 hours. I’m not sure if it was long enough yet. I still feel pretty shitty but I find that the motivation for my feelings have changed quite a bit as time is marching on.
First: I still feel like the manner in which I was treated by the person I was negotiating with was disrespectful and inconsiderate. I’ve had some time to think about it and talk to a few really awesome people about it though. I absolutely unequivocably stand by the statement that he is an asshat in regards to how he handled the situation. I do however know that he is not a bad person in general. He is still someone that I have loved and held close to me for a long time. But he disappointed me in a way that I am going to have trouble forgiving and forgetting. I don’t think I will risk putting myself out there with him anymore.
Second: I think the way in which people took my ranting personally is pretty ridiculous. The people who got the most angry are people who were not who I was ranting about and having to placate them in the process of me being generally upset was really fucking annoying to put it mildly. In the future if I have people who start yelling at me like that when I’m in the middle of something really crappy I will simply take them off the filter and delete the comment. I thought about this a lot. I worried about whether or not this made me immature or selfish or whether this meant I would be requiring people to unequivocally agree with me at all times. It took several people giving me the same advice before I decided to follow this course of action.
I am pretty fucking tolerant of people arguing with me in general. I am really ok with people questioning my behavior and actions in general and I will generally go out of my way to explain myself even when it really isn’t something that I have any reason to do. Just because I love my friends and I respect them. When I am hurting really bad isn’t the time to dump lots of criticism on me though. Every single person who went off on me in the last few days seemed to be saying, “You are wrong/bad/etc” and I really wasn’t in the place to hear their words in any other way. If they had waited a few days there would have been the inevitable follow up postings (this is me after all) wondering what I could/should do differently in the future and asking how people think I fucked up. I mean Jesus Fucking Christ people I am always asking what I have done wrong I just usually need a few days before hearing it doesn’t feel like I’ve been smacked in the face with a two by four of “you are a sucky loser.” I don’t think needing this lag time is compromising anyone’s integrity. If waiting a few days before telling me off is that horrible, then yeah–we do have a problem in general.
I suppose this is a long-winded way of saying that there is an official time lapse before people are allowed to tell me how I am wrong when something really shitty happens. An easy way to find out if this time period is over would be to ask me if I am ready to hear the other side yet. If I say no, hold it for a few days. I will say yes pretty soon. If you don’t like this policy, unfriend me and don’t read my journal anymore because I am going to bloody well stick to it. People who claim to love me tell me that they want me to have healthy boundaries, well this is a boundary for me. When I already feeling shitty I need at least a few days of simple support before my fuck ups are pointed out. You can criticize me when I stop sobbing hysterically. The panic attacks and crying jags of the past few days have been horrible and they have been worse because of the criticisms.
I’m not saying that any of the criticisms are wrong or inappropriate in general. Just that the timing sucks.
Third: ok, there were some people offended by a statement who were actually part of the target audience of the in question sentence. I said that I wouldn’t talk to vanilla’s in the future about this type of scene. There were a number of things behind this statement. I have spent hours and hours on the phone in the past three days with long-time scene friends. Several of them asked me why I chose to involve people who are not scene people in the negotiations. I said that the people I talked to really do love me and I thought their emotional support would be helful and good. The question was asked, “How well did you feel you were explaining your motivation?” I think I did a crappy job of explaining my motivation. This is not a reflection on my vanilla friends. I think that there are things about playing, and specifically playing extremely heavily, that I simply do not have the words to explain and trying to explain to people who do not innately have the same impulses is very frustrating, draining, and upseting. I don’t know how to explain why I want to play the way I do anymore than I can explain to someone who has never been the victim of sexual assault what it feels like every day to live with it. I feel like in trying to explain the impulses that are hard wired into my brain I am doing a shitty job of it and I am giving people on the outside of those impulses a really shoddy imperfect view of what is in my head. I just don’t know how to explain it. So I kind of feel like I learned that in order really talk about heavy duty play I need to talk to other people who do heavy duty play in the same way that I have to talk to other rape survivors in order for people to understand what my processing that looks like. It doesn’t mean I don’t love and respect and treasure the people in my life who are not perverts–I mean good grief. It just means that I learned a hard lesson about the limits of my abilities to effectively communicate with someone who doesn’t just “get it” on their own. (Yes, this one is open to debate already.)
I think that is all for now. I know the last thing will probably be debated hotly and I am feeling up for that debate. I am not yet ready to hear all the stuff on the “other side” of the original issue. It still hurts a lot.
Okay, so this has nothing to directly do with your situation…
Dang I wish I could write like you…you put everything out so well…*the situation, your feelings and perceptions…*
I would love to watch you debate.
If you notice there is usually a lag before I respond to people’s comments. It is because I have to stop and think about what I am going to say or I will snap of things I don’t really mean. I am not the best debater in the world–I get too emotional.
*hugs*
Thank you for the compliment sweetie.
hugz’n’hugz’n’hugz
In my book, it is ALWAYS okay to say, “I need to vent; no feedback please.” We do it here at my house. It can be hard to just listen, but we give each other that effort.
(So c’mon over and vent anytime! It’s safe here! [g] Plus there’s kitties.)
ps: 11:40pm LJ time = 9:40am CA time
yes I agree, you should feel free to vent and say no feedback please. In fact you can post something and change the settings so that no one can leave a comment. I think it is a healthy thing to do.
Also, I totally agree that feeling safe to express yourself in your journal is something that should be a priority. If someone offends you repeatedly or stalks you or whatever, you absolutely should do what you need to feel safe and taking people off your friends list or writing to a select filter is definitely a good way to take care of yourself.
First, continuing *hugs*
Second, I want to say that as someone who thinks of herself as not-knky (which may not quite be the same as vanilla, but probably in the same basket for these purposes), I am fine with you not talking about some of this stuff to me. I want to be supportive of you, and that means not asking you to spend more effort to explain something than you have or to put in effort that isn’t likely to be met with a commensurate level of support or understanding. I’m okay with that. You don’t need to confide everything in me in order for me to like you. I respect that you can make good decisions, and that includes when or if to tell me something. I may be only able to offer more generalized “*hugs* and hope this works out”, but that is still a valid way of being a friend.
I never saw the original post about the problems you’re having (I think you must have made it private before I got to LJ) so I’ll just offer my uninformed *hugs* and hope that you can work things out.
I enjoy reading your stuff about kink a lot but it does sometimes make me uncomfortable – I think because I DO understand the motivations to some degree but my understanding is incomplete. I have a lot of insecurities surrounding serious kink. I don’t have nearly the experience level I’d like to and the insecurity over my inexperience prevents me from gaining more experience. It’s a really annoying catch-22 that is MY issue and has nothing to do with you except that reading some of your stuff reminds me of it. If you’d rather not have me read the kink stuff in light of that I would understand… but if that doesn’t bother you I would like to keep reading.
Well, in the main people will still be welcome to read the stuff I do on a regular basis.
What you missed was a blow up around a potential edge play scene. The kind of play that even a lot of long time perverts don’t do because it is very ‘out there.’
Yeah, you are still going to read about my random kinky sex and such. 🙂
In terms of point three, while I consider myself mostly vanilla I’m quite willing to be a sounding board for you. I might say something along the lines of “gosh, that’s out there, it certainly isn’t for me”, but if it’s what you want to do and it will be rewarding for you to do it, then I’m quite behind you doing what you like.
Now, I’m your friend, so I think it sounds like it might be destructive, I would say so, but as you noted above, there’s really No. Way. for me to put myself wholly in your shoes, so in the end, it’s your life and your decision.
Also, in my solution-oriented way, might I suggest that when posting to vent and not wanting to hear anything back immediately, you disable comments?
That wouldn’t stop the emails that people send that I often don’t want to see.
Suren it wouldn’t. But it makes them take the extra step of opening up the email client, and maybe some of them will use that time to think: “Do I really need to send this?”
But anyway. Hi! *hug*
I do hope my comment on the post didn’t sound critical, because that’s the opposite of how it was intended. (much too long-winded for a reply in someone else’s journal, yes, but not critical. Probably, in retrospect, I shouldn’t sit on LJ writing replies when I’ve got a bit of a fever and putting lots of random thought into everything sounds good to me.)
I think I agree with it not necessarily being a good idea to talk to people who won’t get it about heavy play, which was what I was trying to say in the other comment when I suggested not telling people – I definitely didn’t mean to sound like you should keep it a secret. It’s more like, well, I wouldn’t walk up to Jay Wiseman and tell him I was planning on doing a big breath play scene, because not only does he think it’s a very dangerous thing he also doesn’t understand why anyone would want to do it. And when someone doesn’t understand the motivation for doing something scary, all they see is “this person is doing something that could hurt them, and I can’t understand why, so they shouldn’t be doing it.”
Hrm. Maybe it has less to do with whether someone’s vanilla, and more to do with whether someone’s willing to take a statement like “I really want to do this for reasons that are good to *me*” and believe it, even if they don’t understand the motivations. Because I think too often the thought “I don’t understand it” turns into “So it’s unreasonable.”
Before I ramble on way too long again, I’ll stop. Except to say that asking for a time lapse before criticism is totally reasonable, it’s not like you’re asking for no one to ever tell you you’re wrong, you just want time. (I’m not sure I agree with the suggestion to disable comments at those points, it might be better to put in a statement reminding people that you need some time.)
Dana, you said nothing that offended me and I thank you for your comments.
*hugs*
I’m trying to coalesce my thoughts about this. I’m really trying not to deflect my own insecurities back on you, as I know that between the two of us, we could have a never-ending spiral of who thinks they’ve failed worse in communicating and relating.
Additionally, I’m specifically doing this as a comment because I feel like you are really unhappy about my emails. I often email because I want to respect your privacy and communicate specifically and directly, but I get the sense that you don’t like that form of communication, and plus, you almost never answer my email (it’s true). I’m not an IM’er so I guess I use email the way other people use IM. In this case, it just pisses you off, so it fails. So no more emails.
Blunt honesty – you don’t take people questioning your behaviors well. OK, you don’t take ME questioning your behaviors well. At least not at first. You often react with a “what the fuck right do you have to tell me what to do” or “if you don’t like it leave” response, even when I’ve only asked a question or stated an opinion, not given an instruction. And I hate that. I don’t like getting lashed out at. It’s not fair to just blanket situations with ‘I’m angry, therefore you have to take my shit and not be offended or hurt, and if you take it personally you’re being ridiculous.’ It stings like a slap in the face and it reminds me of my father. I don’t know what I want you to say or do. I don’t even care if you respond. I just want to say it.
I can respect your desire for space when you’re angry/disappointed/frustrated/etc. Do what you need to do. I know you won’t always hear what is intended when emotions are casting a heavy shadow.
I absolutely disagree that one has to have had the same experiences to be able to have valid input about something. If I only listened to people who had the same experiences as me, I’d never get any useful input. I need the people who see things differently, from a different angle, to help me have a true perspective on things. I also think that asking questions does not equal requiring justification or defense. I respect that just as I accept others perspectives, that other people are trying to take in my perspective. It gives EVERYONE a bigger, more detailed picture.
I don’t know how to phrase things delicately. I try to speak things as clearly as I can, because I feel that trying to be delicate often confuses meanings. I know things become very blunt edged as a result, and I’m sorry. It is the thing that people hate the most about me, and I know it, and hate it about myself. I am direct and abrupt, and I don’t know how to communicate in a more pleasing way when I feel compelled to convey my intent. I’m sorry.
I’m not great at responding to emails in general. Either I respond immidiately or I usually forget indefinately. (There are multiple emails that have been in my inbox for 4+ months that I actually do want to respond to…) Once again, I’m not trying to avoid *you*.
Yes, you and I have significant difficulty communicating via writing. I hear a much nastier inflection than you intend and you get frustrated with my defensiveness. We work better in person.
I’m with the other folks who didn’t see what happened in your journal before you privatized it. My *hugs* go out to you as well.
I’ve learned a lot about through reading your journal, especially your edgier entries — about myself and about others. I’m vanilla-ish largely because of fear. I called it a major success to be able to enjoy my sexuality and share it with others and stopped my recovery there. But if my lack of experience in the scene is a problem for including me in the filter, I’ll totally understand.
I suppose this is a long-winded way of saying that there is an official time lapse before people are allowed to tell me how I am wrong when something really shitty happens.
Somewhat surprisingly, I think I figured that out on this one.
An easy way to find out if this time period is over would be to ask me if I am ready to hear the other side yet.
Excellent. I can do that. Thank you for suggesting it.
Most of what I had to offer on the subject you’ve already heard from elsewhere and acknowledged in your journal. I think you’re doing a fine job of sorting through it all.
Just a couple tidbits… for every “heavy” personal growth scene I’ve done, there’ve been some number of scenes discussed, or planned, that didn’t quite happen. It happened a lot for me initially but the incidence of failed-to-occur scenes declined over time. I still discuss more than I actually play, but I rarely feel like one “fell through” any more.
Also, I’ve learned that even “fell through” scenes tend to stir shit up, as I’m sure you’re noticing now. Even just planning them opens up and sorts a lot of stuff. The simple fact that you didn’t play doesn’t necessarily prevent growth around what did occur. I’ve often learned as much from some that didn’t occur as I have from some that did.
I think you’re doing fine. You will get through. And I’m sure you will do others in the future.