Ok. I’ve been on the identity bandwagon for a while now, at least the idea of examining my identity. There is a big chunk of it that I haven’t been ready to think about, but… in the last few days it has been swimming in my brain more than usual.
BDSM. Yeah. For those who are in the scene, they understand that it can play a big part of your identity; for those who are not in the scene they may not understand the big deal.
But what is the big deal? I have spent very little time in and around the scene in the past year and a half. Ok, so I had that brief time when I was showing up more because Malcolm taunted me with the idea that he might be interested, but other than that I haven’t really been around. I stopped going when I stopped having a steady play partner. I realize that this is both logical and illogical. I was hurting and I wanted to step away from the part of my life that I associated with him, but how was I going to find more play partners if I didn’t hunt in the scene? So I avoided stuff for a while. I have been trying to sort out my feelings and what is actually important to me.
I still don’t know, but I have this lovely play partner now. But… our play is kind of odd to me. For one thing, he doesn’t play unless there is sex involved. It may be an odd thing for non-scene people to think about, but I really don’t associate sex and play that strongly. I can probably count on my fingers and toes how many times over the years that Tom and I played and had sex in the same space of time. It just didn’t happen much. But Puppy doesn’t play without fucking me while I am still tied up or as soon as he takes me down from beating me.
I’m also having a lot of trouble with the “training my top” thing. I feel like this pathetic wuss because I can’t just take what he wants to dish out. The fact is, I haven’t played with heavy pain much. I have really gotten off on it most of the times I have, but that wasn’t how Tom played. I am also not terribly into casual play so I haven’t actually played with that many people over the years. I really hate feeling like I am complaining about how Puppy plays with me. I just can’t take a heavy beating with no warm up though. Ok, so anyone “can” take it if they truly have no choice, but it won’t be fun and I won’t process it and it will be all around miserable for me. I really hate feeling demanding about it though. (In his defense he has Seriously Improved in the warm up department already. But we haven’t tried any sort of heavy scene in like two months.)
And I’m still not really involved in the scene again. Puppy doesn’t care that much about having a friends group that is perverted, he has a few friends but he doesn’t see them much and they aren’t the people he focuses his time or energy on, and I feel weird about going to scene events alone. I picked a group of dancers yesterday over pervs and I’m really happy with the decision. There is only so much time and it is hard to develop friendships with a super huge number of people. I will be working with the dancers pretty intensely later this year for two months and I don’t want to feel as lonely as I did last year. It seems more prudent to spend time now developing those relationships.
So I’m in this weird limbo feeling. I no longer feel like I really should identify as a pervert, and yet it is still such a big part of who I am. I feel like if I am no longer involved in the perv community I should ditch the label. In some ways it would make my life easier if I didn’t identify as a pervert. If I am only playing in my bedroom and I spend almost no time with other perverts it significantly lowers my risk of being outed. And yet… I don’t feel like I want to give it up. I don’t miss the exhibitionistic part of playing publicly, I miss the feeling of acceptance for me in all my freak glory. I feel like I am conforming to the popular idea of who and what I should be, and I don’t like it.
Not to mention that I have all these fetish clothes that are going to waste. Dude. Why did I invest so much money for nothing?! If another year goes by and I don’t touch anything I’m going to ebay it. 🙁
hmmm.
I know I have something to contribute here – identity and what we do, who we hang with, the sense of being a “freak”… where is our community, under what circumstances do we get to “claim” certain territories/labels/names?
I know that I had VERY mixed feelings about Pride, as in Jeff marching it and me not feeling like I was “entitled” to go even if I hadn’t had another committment… I had a moment near tears, when I realized I could include myself as someone who _loves_ people who are bi, poly, gay, multi, trans, or whatever… Like I felt I was too vanilla or straight or something, even though I’ve been a geek and a freak all my life, feels like.
need to think about it more. *considering* will check back in with you later.
I no longer feel like I really should identify as a pervert, and yet it is still such a big part of who I am. I feel like if I am no longer involved in the perv community I should ditch the label.
This confuses me – just like it did when you and I were talking about me rather than you. I still don’t understand why you would believe that if you’re not spending lots of your time around perverts, you’re not a pervert.
If you spend all your time around smokers, it doesn’t make you a smoker. If you spend all your time around non-smokers, it doesn’t make you a non-smoker.
I still don’t understand why you believe that perversion is so irrevocably linked to hanging out socially with other perverts.
Presumably this is linked to that bit about whether private play ‘counts’, which I also didn’t understand.
interjecting here, but I think (oh shit, he’s thinking again) that there are two different labels going here:
“in the scene” versus “pervert”
Is identifying as the latter a problem if you’re not the former,?
I completely agree with. being a (blank) means that you meet certain criteria. Being a skateboarder means you skateboard, while being Theta Chi pretty much means you associate with other Theta Chis. Is being a pervert a description of what you do or of what group you run with?
Also, think about pre- versus descriptive labeling. Does the title dictate the action or does the action dictate the title? For myself, I found myself much freer in who I was and what I allowed myself to do once I made it a point to describe myself by what I did rather than doing what I describe myself as.
Oh, yeah, and don’t listen to others! Some titles belong to a certain group (like General in the US army). You can’t just use those. Others, nobody has the right to give you or take away. I don’t dress like a punk, I don’t listen to punk music, and yet I am a punk. If anyone tells me I’m not a punk, I list the traditional punk ethics (acceptance, DIY, rebellion against overbearing government, handing it to The Man, etc), and point out that I am more of a punk than many bemohawked, leather-jacketed spiked goons. Anyone who feels like arguing can get bent.
Take control of your labels and your identity. Act the way you feel is best, and label yourself accordingly (hell, even labeling yourself is an action! You can do it pre-de- or nondescriptively!), or don’t label yourself at all. You’re a human, and humans don’t come in pigeonholes, we come in a spectrum. Have fun with it!
Good luck!
Ok, you bring up the punk thing. What about the goth scene? I still like many things that fall into the goth community but I feel it would be disingenuous for me to identify as goth. I do not behave or act in ways that are concurrent with being goth.
I kind of think that I think of the labels the same way that you think of the Theta Chis. If I’m not in the scene, then I shouldn’t say I am.
Oh, but see, there’s two different kinds of labels at work here! There’s the kind that describe your activity (dancer) and those that describe the group you run with (Plough folk).
As far as goth goes- I consider myself a dormant goth. Don’t dress like it much (anymore), wasn’t ever to happy with the scene, but still hold a lot of the ideas, although I don’t act on them often these days. NOthing to say you you can’t identify yourself as such, provided you’re willing to get into a philosophical discussion. Personally, I deal with it in the most quintisentially gothic way- “I’m NOT a goth! That’s such a cliché! I just happen to wear black on occasion.” Tends to get people off my back. Oh, and they walk away thinking “Like hell he’s not a goth!” But maybe that’s just me playing with inferior minds again… 😉
If a bisexual woman happily marries a man, is she any less bisexual?
That is what I am thinking about.
I tend to see it that way, being pervy is about your desires, the way in which you bend ect. It’s not about who you hang with or who you know or how often you go out, dress up and play publicly. One can enjoy a quietly decadent life. Thats absolutely cool. You don’t have to prove it to anyone.
My man was one kinky boy before he ever knew there was a scene. He was just following his desires, and I’m glad of it. Even now he isn’t very social and he just doesnt’ have the work schedule that even allows him to go out. But he’s kinky and he knows it and even non kinky people of his aquaintance tend to know it of him though he doesn’t push it in their face. They just tend to pick it up after a while.
I personally went for a while where I didn’t have friends that were kinky. I didn’t mean for it to happen that way, it was just circumstance. I’m very glad that that isn’t the case now. I need my kinky friends. Its nice to know they get my kinky humor or my kinky interests. I am glad not to have to risk someones horror or lack of understanding by just being who I am around them. In fact I think my kinky friends help me be who I am around my non kinky friends. I like my non kinky friends but I don’t think I would want to play at being non kinky. That would be like going back into the closet. It’s lonely in there. Not that I’ve ever spent much time in the closet.
Well enough said love. Just so you know I’m not gonna believe that your *not* pervy any time soon no matter what you call yourself.
Also love, its okay to want a warm up, there is a reason why they were invented. Of course you want to be able to take more, and having a good warm up might help a lot for you to be able to. Also what one can take varies from day to day, that’s just normal. It depends on a lot of factors.
Hugs for you love.
The current vogue in self identity labels is that they have absolutely nothing to do with behavior. I can point to several well known “dykes” who are married to men.
I often argue that self identification labels in general, and orientation labels in particular, are essentially just politics. They associate a person with a group of other people. Nothing else is required or intended.
Hrm. I’m probably going to get in trouble for this, but I honestly blame the type of community I see at munches and such for the feeling that “If I’m not going to the events I’m not in the scene.”
I’d been self identified as in the scene for a couple years, going to clubs regularily, and then we went to our first munch. And everyone said “how long have you been in the scene?” and when I said 2 years, but admitted that this was the first munch, they all acted like nothing before attending the munch had counted. Like “the scene” was identified as the people who attend munches and join formal organizations. To me, this is pretty much bullshit, given that at that point I’d already helped throw a couple of play parties, and that should damn well count. Hell, playing in the bedroom and being willing to admit it, at least to other perverts, should count. (I’m not sure it counts if denied. I mean, it counts as being a pervert, but not as being part of any scene.)
Anyway. Your identity is about you rather than what social groups you actively participate in. Otherwise, given my actions for the last while, I’d be straight and vanilla, and I’m not.
You aren’t going to get in trouble with me.
I came into the scene in the munch community. That is where I found my “identity.” I think that is a lot of why I have the feelings I do. I was originally introduced via the idea that if you weren’t in the community, it doesn’t count.
Whoever told you that is FUCKED in the HEAD. In a non-good way.
I dare any munch snob to tell me to my face that I’m not a pervert. 😀
ditto.
I’m in the scene because I like pain, not food.
I won’t tell you that you’re not a pervert. That’s up to you. I don’t self identify as a pervert.
However, I will state that if you don’t attend any social functions or social forums related to the leather scene then you really aren’t participating in the leather scene and thus aren’t really part of the scene. Of course, no one says you have to be. Certainly most people in the world aren’t.
I’m “in the scene” but I’m not a pervert.
It’s the attitude that clubs and play parties don’t count – only being willing to sit at a dennys for two hours or pay for classes counts – that really annoys me. And then they wonder why they have trouble getting people under 35 to show up…well gee, could it be the way they insult those of us that like places like BAGG and Sin and Wicked City better then Odyssey events?
If you sell the clothes: rather than e-bay, perhaps sell to local in-the-scene folks? If you can find some more reliable than “random e-bay customer” 🙂
Random e-bay customers will actually help me recoup some of the $ I’ve spent on them. They pay more and wouldn’t expect a deal because we are friends.
True that, and the seller can generally wait to ship the item until after payment is received.
Why sell the clothes? You may use them sometime, and they’d be a pain to replace should you suddenly need them for a scene. If you miss them, wear them.
I really hate feeling like I am complaining about how Puppy plays with me. I just can’t take a heavy beating with no warm up though.
There’s no One Way to like play. Everybody’s different, just like everybody has different turn-ons for sex. It’s not ‘weak’ to need warm-up for a heavy beating. It’s just what you need.
I don’t think I know anyone that goes for heavy play with no warm up. Some people need a tad and some need lots, but just about everyone needs some warming up. I think you can count yourself normal.
Puppy needs to know how to slow down, .. A big thing for most beginning tops.
Um, yeah, what they said. What makes you a “pervert” is who you are, not who you hang out with. It’s not even about what you do – all that can do is make you kinky.
and another “what they said”
You are who you are, you do what you do (you are who you do?). Being a perv, goth, punk, dancer, etc. is simply another way to let folks know what you’re into.
Well, anyway – Elaine and I left the community in ’92/’93 and I didn’t make a re-appearance until 2002 or so. Does that mean I wasn’t kinky/pervy from ’93 to ’02? Nope, it just meant that I scened at home, privately
Since Elaine has chosen to not play publicly or go to events, does that make her less a perv? I think not, I dare anyone to question *her* qualifications. Now that would be fun to watch, but then again, I’m a perv.
Gay folks are gay even if they don’t act out, demonstrate, attend parades, gay bars, baths, or any of the rest of it. And you can be leather identified even if you aren’t currently active in the social circuit.
There’s a difference between having leather/scene based interests and participating in the leather/scene social events. Either or both can be parts of one’s identity. No one’s going to yank your membership card.
*hugs*
I’m with you on the dissociation of sex and play and on the “training your top” thing. What I receive from play is distinctly different from sexual energy. I don’t need to be fucked and many times I can’t be or it’s awkward and spoils the scene for me. Of course working in a nice bout of receptive anal sex can be really really nice… and fits right in the mood… (Oh, TMI?)
I love my Lizzie, but I don’t quite know how to approach the “training my top” thing. Hmmm. I pretty much gave up playing after I broke up with my previous partner. Sometimes I feel like I’m just being lazy, but I think there’s more to it than that.
Ah well, hope you figure it out.
Well, you are starting from a much harder place than I am because my Puppy has many of the general top skills and your wonderful Lizzie doesn’t have the history behind her. I am more trying to get him to refine his skills than teach him brand new ones.
If you sell your kink wear you are going to regret it. seriously. Just wait it out at least until after the mono gets better. I’ve known far too many people who have sold their stash, and regretted it for years or even decades.
And about the scene issue. Don’t be dramatic. Just because you don’t do something every single month does not mean you get your scene card yanked. You have been to several munches, some Sin’s, participated in Janus and Frenzi discussions, gone to the Fetish Ball for free, along with who knows what else… oh yes, headed a brand new munch, all during this year. You, my dear, are a big old scenester. When leather people in the Bay Area picture ‘The Scene’, your fresh face is in the very front row of the class picture this year. You still have your steel studded toaster, so put your latex cheerleader skirt back in it’s nicely talc-lined storage area, ok? Ok.