A coworker sent out an email today about defiant students. I responded. I find the different approaches very interesting and worth noting. It’s a bit long.
Colleagues-
I don’t usually use this as a source to express my opinion, but I need to
vent some frustration.
As with most of you, I have rules and regulations in my classroom that my
students are held accountable for. If they choose to break any classroom
policy, they know that they will be dealt a consequence for that specific
offense. There are no smoke and mirrors in 413. Students are expected to
wear an I.D. badge around their neck every minute of class, use bathroom
passes at appropriate times and situations, and show respect for themselves
and others.
It sure is a different story outside my classroom during class time. During
5th, 6th and 7th periods I walk between my room, the science storage room
and the science office and experience none of the above expectations from
students. Students are out of class without I.D. badges around their neck,
without bathroom passes, and occasionally completely defiant toward me. I’ve
had students who I don’t know talk disrespectfully toward me, many others
just refuse to do what I ask of them, others simply run from me.
Ultimately, these students are displaying defiance toward a teacher and an
authority figure on our campus. To me, this is unacceptable and should not
be tolerated.
This campus is my home away from home and I share this home with so many
staff members like you. I am personally fed up with the disrespect and
defiance directed toward Santa Teresa staff members and hope for the
strictest stand. I don’t see that “loving harassment” is working because it
sure has not improved these issues here on this campus. According to my
observations and experiences, it has gotten worse since we implemented such
a concept. I completely understand that our student population has grown,
our boundaries have increased, and that we have a lot of students who come
from tough backgrounds. Our school might be the only place in their lives
that has standards and structure that is consistent. This might actually
give them a sense of value and pride toward their school because we are
holding them accountable for their actions. By keeping them accountable, we
are showing that we care. By doing the least, we are sending the opposite
message that we do not. Where do the excuses stop and the consequences
begin? I still think we need to have the ultimate and strictest rules
regarding disrespect/defiance toward staff members. When a Saturday school
or suspension does not change a person then the punishment needs to be more
severe.
Don’t get me wrong, I know that we have some awesome kids here that make
great decisions day in and out, but unfortunately we spend a lot of our time
dealing with the “nuggets” that do very little positive for this campus.
So, for the 50,60 or 70 kids who choose to disrespect/defy staff (especially
more than once), there’s got to be a better way. Move them. Send them to
another campus. Make their life difficult by sending them to a school
further from their home. Show them and their defiant friends that Santa
Teresa High School will not tolerate this type of behavior and that it is a
privilege to attend this school. I guarantee, the morale at this school
will improve and staff will feel supported and excited to perform extra
duties instead of dreading what they may have to deal with outside of their
room.
In no way, shape or form is this directed toward administration. This is
intended for all of us because we all deal with it!
My question is, what can our staff do to fix this growing problem?
————————-
My response:
I was actually discussing this very subject with my husband at about the same time you posted this email. I find it interesting that we have such different takes on it. So here’s my two cents….
I have what is perhaps a very different background from most teachers. I was that problem child. I was yelled at, given Saturday school, suspended and asked to leave schools due to the level of disrespect I showed teachers and staff. Not one single punishment ever had any effect on my behavior in the slightest. The reason that punishments never had an effect is because I was reacting to things in my life that were much worse than being expelled could ever compare to. These measures instead just served to show me that there was one more area of my life where no one cared what happened to me and everyone just thought of me as a “problem” they wanted to get rid of.
It has been my experience that there are many children on this campus who are living under extremely unpleasant circumstances—and that is a serious understatement for the sake of polite language. By and large these are the children who are the “nuggets”. I make a point of talking to these “nuggets” as often as I can, both in my class and on campus in general. When they react in a hostile manner to me I don’t take it personally. They are not really having a problem with me, they are reacting to years of authority figures treating them badly. I do my best to approach them with humor and if that doesn’t work I make my voice a little more gentle because they aren’t reacting out of a genuine desire to be nasty to –me-. I can count on my fingers the number of kids who react poorly and I’m unwilling to give up on them. I think that if given more time and respect they will realize that I am not actually around just to be one more person yelling at them.
In no way am I trying to pick on you Matt or argue with you specifically. I’m just aware that what worked for me (and I would like to think that overall I’m pretty successful in life at this point) was having people treat me with utmost respect even when I was a “nugget.” I had a few important people, non-ironically teachers, who told me that whatever I had done in my life I had the ability to change and become whoever I wanted to be. It was hard to believe them then and sometimes it is still hard to wrap my head around the changes that have happened in my life. One of the main reasons I love being at ST is because there are some awesome people on this staff; I can’t help but feel that if we shove these kids off on someone else to be their “problem” we are depriving them of some chances to be exposed to people who might make a difference in their lives.
There you go. Bet no one ever pegged me as a Pollyanna.
I was also “The Problem student”, because I challenged the teachers to prove their lessons, In math I had problems in it, because I augured that proves were a leap in faith on the ‘fact’ that 1=1, how is it that a “unit” is one, and not many as a unit, therefor the simple proofs in high school fell flat. In English I wanted to know why there were so many exceptions to the rules that they became the exception, like i before e and then there is all of the exceptions, when asked these kinds of questions the Authorities just told me to listen and remember.
I dropped out of HS my junior year doing science electives and calculus, in math. Now after surviving being a junkie and the restaurant industry I am back in school (Collage) puling a 3.98.
The road to the future is not a narrow or easily defined one. Whatever works and makes you happy is worthwhile.
“Students are expected to wear an ID badge around their neck every minute of class”
WTF? Is this a school or a prison?
“it is a privilege to attend this school”
Does he not see the contradiction between those two statements?
Are teachers required to wear an ID badge at all times while on campus? Why not?
Starting out with petty degradation and disrespect (which is exactly what requiring students to wear ID badges is) does not establish a culture of respect at the school.
I hate the ID policy. The stated reason for it is “safety”. They can recognize if someone is or isn’t a student by seeing their ID badge. They have also told the kids that part of the reason is that during Columbine they couldn’t correctly ID all of the kids shot for a bit and that really upset people.
We are strongly encouraged to wear IDs and the vast majority of teachers do. I do when my nausea is not in high gear (the chord can be a problem some days). But no, there is not a culture of respect at our school and my coworkers don’t get that.
I could understand a requirement that everyone *carry* their school ID badge on their person, and present it on demand from a teacher or administrator, and maybe show it to enter the campus. That would be a little harsher than what I dealt with when I was in school, but it’s not really any worse than in the adult world. (And it satisfies the “ID the bodies” worry.)
Matt has attitudes like that, and wonders why the kids run away from him?
And what the hell is “loving harassment”? That sounds like it was designed to get students annoyed at both teachers like Matt and like you, if either of you actually did it.
Interestingly, most of these policies can be linked back to the Laurie Dann episode back in the ’88 which took place in my neighborhood. It wasn’t the first example of violence in a school but the nature of it caused way more people to sit up and take notice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Dann
After that episode I noticed a lot of schools started to put into place mechanisms to be sure of who was in the buildings at all times, and to come up with ways of identifying those who should be there from those who shouldn’t.
I tend to agree the ID being worn thing seems a little silly.
What’s their justification for that policy?
I lovingly harass people constantly. You should be familiar with it. 😉 To me it means asking people to do what they are supposed to be dong in an affectionate tone of voice. I also use lots of endearments with my kids and they respond pretty well. “Darling, do I really *have* to ask you to take your ear phones off?” 9/10 they grin and take it off without another word.
Well, I wonder if I don’t see part of the problem.
Maybe it’s because my parents and grandparents were teachers, but I still tend to look at things from the perspective of the students, and this was a delusional attitude that many of the worst teachers shared. -Real- authority is something you EARN, it never comes from an external title, no matter how much some people want to believe otherwise.
Teachers are entitled to a minimal amount of civility and decorum simply because they’re teachers and it’s necessary to maintain some order in the classroom. I grew up believing though, that respect is *always* a two-way street, no matter who you are or what your title is… if you don’t -give- it, you will never be very successful at -getting- it.
Showing bad manners to your students, being an arrogant martinet or a contemptuous tin-pot tyrant is something that is NEVER excused by being in possession of the title of ‘teacher’ or ‘principal’, and if you combine that with authoritarian crackdowns and micromanagement by rule enforcement, you can only succeed in creating MORE rebellious and anti-authoritarian pupils, especially among the brightest ones who might have been otherwise inclined to not be a problem.
I know when I encountered a teacher outside of the classroom who approached me with the attitude of “I’m a Teacher, when I say “frog”, you JUMP!”– My attitude was consistently ‘Go find yourself another frog, asshole.’
A short case in point– when I left my little high school in Montana, our school Principal was a guy named Walt Clark. Walt wasn’t always the sharpest tool in the shed, and sometimes he got a little carried away with the authoritarian approach. But while he wasn’t greatly loved by the student body, (well how many principals are?) he was generally respectful to students and he was someone you could -talk- to and he would talk TO you and not DOWN to you. He was a principal there for several years and then shortly after I left, he did too, for reasons unknown to me, as did the Superintendent.
They were replaced by a couple of ‘hard cases’ from the urban Chicago school district who were apparently lured by idyllic visions of life at a small-town high school in Montana. They came in and by golly, they ‘cracked down’. School became a ‘closed campus’ and lots of new rules were slapped into place, and the new ‘tough guys’ spent a lot of their day outside of their offices, prowling the halls and grounds enforcing their new regime.
One of the more entertaining consequences was that my younger brother, a MUCH better student than myself in terms of grades, participation and respect for authority, started an underground campaign. He had a photo of Walt from the annual staff, and he copied off a bunch of flyers with the picture on them and the bold slogan– “WALT CLARK FOR PRINCIPAL! RE-ELECT WALTER CLARK!” and parody text describing Walt’s virtues as a candidate for the position as opposed to the current office-holders.
The new principal and superintendent were openly despised by the students and many of the parents and they were both gone by the end of two years. So much for their ‘authority’.
The author of your letter sounds like he’s of the same breed. The choice of language *still* gets my back up after all of these years, and his lack of respect for students clearly shows. Were I in his school, I would definitely have been one of his ‘problems’ and enjoyed it. Perhaps he needs to look into a career at a Correctional Facility of some kind, where it can appropriately be his job to worry about making other people’s lives miserable, and rule enforcement is the only thing that matters.
It’s people like him that strive to create the kind of ‘respectful of authority’ non-thinkers who make up the 24% who still believe that George Bush is a ‘great Preznit’. I would have had no respect for him then, and even from a more adult perspective, it’s hard to find any for him now.
I loved your response though. *You* I would have loved having for a teacher. Respect would have been a given. 🙂
I love the story about your home town. That is awesome. I think that what helps me is partially that I am pretty anti-authority myself. I explain to the kids at the beginning of the year what the rules are for the school and where they come from. We talk about why some of them should be followed and we talk about which ones they can blow off without anyone ever really caring. I explain what rules I am going to enforce and why and ask them to please cooperate because I *hate* punishing people for breaking these stupid rules.
And then my kids rock. It’s great.
Your passion for what you do, how obvious it is that you really CARE about your students….it’s really beautiful….
Well, someone cared about me. It’s just about paying it forward.
And that is what is so wonderful about it….Those who were there for you when you were a kid must be extremely proud!