So Noah and I have been having conversations about nutrition a lot lately as what I put in my mouth became Way More Interesting about eight months ago (pre-Lizarding). Everyone keeps asking me if I am having cravings and I’m so not. Right now the best I can hope for is food that sounds vaguely ok–most food doesn’t. I’m having a lot of aversions though. Turkey is disgusting. Broccoli makes me gag. I can rarely eat meat and never in much quantity. Vegetables in general are just no fun to eat. What I find weird is that when we were buying skim milk I was drinking copious quantities–we switched to 1% out of some vague idea it would be better for me and I have stopped drinking milk because it doesn’t taste good. Eggs are usually really really disgusting.
So what I am seeking to understand, oh Lazyweb, is: am I having no cravings because I am overall nutritionally sound? This is Noah’s theory and I am not sure. Pre-pregnancy I was extremely good about eating a balanced diet, I’ve been on nutritional supplements for months and months. Am I just riding out the waves of nutrition stored in my system? Does nutrition work that way? If not, what can I possibly do to encourage my body to like nutritious food again? (McDonalds is easy to eat.)
It is worth pointing out that if I get didactic “You should…” with judgment sorts of comments I will probably delete them. I’m doing the best I can right now and I don’t need to be told I suck for doing the best I can.
There’s a lot of religion around food. This data comes from the US scientific nutritional community. It’s what you get from reading fitness books and reputable, degree’d nutritionists and scientific studies.
You need nominal amounts, and a variety of proteins. There used to be a list of proteins that the body was thought not to make which needed to come from your diet. (the whole “complete protein” idea) But even that has been called into question in recent years. It’s still believed that protein in the diet is required, though. Eating meat, specifically red meat is the easiest way to cover the protein spectrum, although it can be done with judicious use of veggies/fruit too.
That’s all you really need to get from your food. And the protein variety can’t come from supplements which don’t exist. Existing protein supplements only cover part of the protein spectrum. Basic vitamins will cover pretty much all the vitamins and minerals you need and these are the hard ones to get via diet. Add a calcium pill and you’re in good shape. That will keep you covered in trace elements for years.
It’s been posed that it might be possible to die from, say, gold deficiency in your diet, but that hasn’t been proven. There’s a whole category of trace elements like gold that seem to be necessary, we think, but aren’t reliably supplied in any particular dietary form and aren’t currently included in typical supplements. But the amounts are minuscule and the body seems to retain these compounds pretty well.
The body also needs some “required” fats in the diet. But a fish oil pill once a day will cover that requirement too.
The rest of what you need nutritionally has to do with fiber – how well stuff moves through your system, and the load on your liver – ratio of fat/protein/carbs, etc. I’m not a doctor, but from what I know, I’d guess that your liver load was already fairly high, so I’d caution away from “no carb” or high protein diets.
Otherwise you’re probably just fine. Most Americans get at least 10x the vitamins they need. If you’re eating a lot of mcdonalds, you’re probably in the “high fat” range. But then, most Americans are.
Oh, and fuel. Your body needs fuel. It prefers carbs for fuel, but it is also content to burn protein or fat, (including body fat), in order to supply fuel. My calculations show me that I’m probably good for fuel even fasting completely and exercising nominally for probably 6-8 months. My body will start to digest it’s own muscle mass for protein before that time period is out. So if I were, say, hiking over the Iberian peninsula, I’d need to eat some animals along the way to keep building muscle. In short, you’re not likely in any trouble for want of fuel any time soon.
My guess is that if you’re getting a good spectrum of vitamins and minerals, then your body might not really be aware of what else it needs. But that’s probably not a major problem.
My advice is to double check your calcium intake. And to do whatever you can to get a broad spectrum of proteins. Keep on your supplements, and add a fish oil pill if you don’t already have one. But that’s it.
My calculations show me that I’m probably good for fuel even fasting completely and exercising nominally for probably 6-8 months.
Well, except that you need a nominal number of calories, something like 100-200 per day, just to “keep the engine running”. If you’re really fasting completely, it’s actually possible to starve to death even with large fat and muscle reserves.
do you have sources for that? i’m curious because i do fasting and i have never heard about that…i assumed that as long as you had some fat reserves you were fine.
Nope. I’m quoting people I’ve talked to, but I don’t know what their sources for that were either.
I’ve never heard that before. And it doesn’t make much sense to me.
“Starving to death” is when the body starts digesting critical organs for fuel, I thought. I suppose it’s possible to start digesting your heart immediately, but I wouldn’t have expected that to be as very strong trait evolutionarily.
From where does your information come? And what is the presumed mechanism behind that?
(Not defensive, I swear!!) I actually only eat McDonald’s once every 2-3 weeks. It’s my big indulgence. 🙂
It sounds like you are overall agreeing with what Noah has been saying. I eat a little bit of protein, just not a lot. I do take a rather obscenely complete pre-natal vitamin and fish oil pills daily.
Fiber stuff: I am not physically capable of going without carbs as they compose about 75-80% of what I eat. Noodles are often the only thing I can suck down. I drink Jamba Juice most days and I’ve never had even a hint of “not being regular” so my understanding is that I am doing well on fiber.
In general my diet includes mostly carb and dairy. I eat red meat 1-2 times per week and probably only 2-4 oz at a time. I rarely eat a full serving of chicken anymore but I have a few bites of it probably 5 times in a week.
I’m eating more sugar than normal though which is a bit weird because normally I just don’t like it much. More sugar means that I’m having Hostess cupcakes or donuts or something equally vile about once a week instead of every 2-3 weeks.
I would so starve to death without carbs. Yay noodles!
I think I am doing well on calcium because I have at least two servings and often four or more servings a day. I’m really big on dairy.
Thank you for all of your input and validation. You hit the mark on exactly the right tone this time. 🙂
I have to admit, I basically say the same thing as teamnoir. Except for the bit about fasting for months. I know he’s fascinated with fasting, but See below about moderation. All or none does not moderation make.
When it comes down to it, what really matters is that you’re getting protein, carbs, and fat in a reasonably balanced amount, and if you’re at all concerned that your sources are too monotone, that you are backing it up with a multivitamin. I don’t really think it’s worth obsessing about what form those things come in, because they all get broken down into the relevant component bits in the end. Food is food. On the grand scale, I believe in “anything in moderation” and don’t condemn any food as inherently evil (read: not to be consumed without guilt, horror, and self-flagellation. Unless that’s what you’re into).
You eat a LOT of protein in the form of dairy, BTW, so don’t sell yourself short because you’re not into a lot of meats.
My main goal was to keep my protein and calcium intakes up. In the first trimester I was a little put off by strong odors (and it was no help that my darling husband tried to feed me a varied “healthy” diet in the form of exotic organic meats from the farmer’s market…yak, buffalo, elk, oh dear) Once the quease of the first trimester passed, I happened to enjoy red meat thoroughly during the remainder of my pregnancy (and hey guess what, this particularly kicked in after I tested borderline anemic….what was that about craving what you need?). I also liked sweet things and pickles LESS than usual.
While *I* happen to very much enjoy vegetables, I know you never have, and I think you’re doing just fine.
Lol. Thank you for saying so.
I don’t know that I am agreeing with Noah so much as I’m trying to offer what I know, as it relates to you, so that you can make your own choices. But it does sound to me as though you’re probably doing fine on the basics. We could quibble about bleached flour, processed sugar, and crap like that, but I honestly believe that while those might be relevant, and even important to a few people, they are extremely minor in the overall scheme of things.
And I do realize that your relationship with food as been strained. So under the conditions, I’d say you were probably doing fine.
Jamba juice is pretty good nutrition, and many carbs/calories.
I have heard from a lot of mothers to be that they have had an aversion to meat although I have no idea on a physiological level why that is. What I hear is that you are listening to your body. If broccoli makes you gag, I believe that your body is saying “no thanks”. Why force it? However, I DO know a wonderful woman (you know her too) who just received her certificate for nutritional counseling and she is looking for clients…she has helped me A LOT and she is not judgmental and will not throw out all of those “shoulds” that tend to make me run for the hills as well! Email me if you are interested…Good luck and I hope that you feel better!
*grin* Oh don’t worry, I’m avoiding broccoli like the plague. 😀
I might actually send you an email about the nutritionist. Maybe. Not sure. We’ll see how things settle in my life in the next 2-3 weeks. Oy busy.
i had reverse cravings like that during the early part of my pregnancy. i think the important thing is to keep eating, so if there is only one thing you can consider eating, i would eat that. actually from what you describe, i doubt if you are in trouble at all, and certainly not from avoiding meat (some cultures have been having healthy vegetarian babies for thousands of years). maybe you could go back to skim milk? i’ve heard a theory that in pregnancy you can be more averse to anything that might be even a little bit toxic, like certain bitter chemicals in broccoli, which makes sense, and is probably a healthy thing overall.
My midwife told me that if all I want to eat is a jelly donut–go eat the jelly donut. I’m pretty much taking her on her word (though I’m not fond of jelly donuts).
I know it is certainly healthy to have babies as a vegetarian but I feel like it is probably a good idea for me to have some meat given how few vegetables I eat. A strictly carb diet isn’t a great idea and vegetables just aren’t going down well.
I plan to buy skim milk the next time we buy milk. Forget this higher fat stuff. 🙂
I suspect that your body is in some measure telling you it’s already satisfied on the nutrients you’re getting from the foods you don’t want. There’s a pretty big movement (my nutritionist was one of them) who believe that the body self-regulates on food, if you’re in tune with it.
So my guess is, if you’re healthy, and you’re not feeling adversely towards not having those foods, you’ve really got nothing to worry about.
I (as a point of curiosity) find this entry really interesting. Seeing how a person’s eating habits change during pregnancy fascinates me, as I’ve started finding out from a lot of people that the common “pickles and peanut butter” wisdom is pretty deeply flawed, and that someone is just as likely to crave cucumber sandwiches as they are ice cream.
I think it is that whole “if you are in tune with your body” thing that I feel nervous about. I don’t know if I am or not. It’s confusing. And I’m basically healthy. The feeling sick I’ve had is very unlikely to be nutrition related.
I’ve found it interesting that *everyone* says, “What are you craving?” when I’m not craving anything.
I honestly haven’t talked to anyone who I consider squarely balanced about food (mentally) who claims any significant pregnancy cravings. I really think (here’s me being judgy) they’re mostly a myth, that gets used to excuse behavior people would otherwise make themselves feel guilty about .
This is probably the one time in your life when you can eat at McDonald’s with a (moderately) clear conscience. Go for it. Ketchup is a vegetable, after all.
Well, I don’t think that going overboard on McDonald’s is a good idea. For one thing, when I’ve binged on food while pregnant I stop being able to eat it after a couple of weeks. I’m better off having a bit every so often so I can keep enjoying it. 🙂
I am not a nutritionist, and thus I am not qualified to comment. But (taking into account that I worry WAY too much) I would strongly suggest posing these questions to a gestational nutritionist.
(This is, of course, just a suggestion, and kindly meant with well-suppressed hand wringing.)
I will keep in mind that you worry too much and I will keep in mind that I feel very comfortable with the overall advice I am gleaning from my friends and my midwife.
That probably came out really bitchy.
I have a number of friends who have spent years doing obsessive research on a variety of topics. I have consistently found them to be as knowledgable and more than “professionals”. I have very good reason to trust their advice. I also have at least one or two people on my friends list who are involved in physical health in one way or another even if they aren’t specifically “nutritionists”.
I also have an extremely mellow midwife who is my primary guidance on this sort of stuff and her advice has been “Eat what you can and your body will guide you.” I like my midwife but I wanted more specifics. Luckily, I have a teamnoir and a blacksheep around to give me perzactly what I wanted. 🙂
As I understand it, and I”m no expert in this area, pregnant woman need more folic acid and calcium for development of the fetus reasons. Obscene cravings, like wanting to eat the chalk at school, or dirt, are often related to not getting enough in the way of trace minerals etc. Cravings for ice cream, ditto. The flavor is generally up to the female. Now my mom’s craving when she had my brother was “tony the tiger” (Frosted flakes, but the UK version which has even heavier frosting than ours) which she ate in bed out of the box sans milk, but that could also be why Jonathan was edging on 11 pounds when born (gestational diabetes most likely, something they didn’t test for 50 years ago — dear lord that over sized juvenile delinquent is almost 50).
Taking folic acid and I’ve upped my calcium. 🙂
I so don’t have gestational diabetes. I’m completely negative on the sugar readings. 🙂
good cause mom was in labor for 60 hours, you really don’t want that….
I can’t tell you how hard it was to NOT shove food on you the entire time you were in my company – but that had nothing to do with you being pregnant and everything to do with my own desire to feed people I care about.
Your body is your best answer, your medical experts are better prepared to answer to specifics … I would try to stay away from salt if I had the whole experience to do over again – and in more recent years, I’ve learned a lot about how sugar affects my moods … but generally I’m a believer in following your instincts on things like this.
I’m much more fascinated with the nutrition choices you will make POST-pregnancy, because of course it gets much more complicated. 😉
I actually really understand “feeding is showing love”. I do the same thing. I am probably having less salt than normal right now, but I am still a bit high on salt intake. I tend to like salt a bit overmuch. I don’t seem to be retaining much water though so I’m not too worried about it. At this point I am not bloated or swollen really at all other than the belly itself.
Sugar is a weird thing. I can’t tell if I am affected by it or not. I can go long periods with very little sugar and I don’t think my mood is noticeably different. It is possible that I’m just not seeing it. I know that I judge some of my attitude about sugar by my mom and she (ok–used to) eats sugar like it is going out of style. Her mood didn’t seem to seesaw in relation to it. Not sure. I know that some of this sort of thing is genetic but I’m not positive how much.
Why do you think it gets much more complicated post-pregnancy?
Because silly girl, what you eat will set the stage for what lizard eats – knowing you, you’ll have high hopes/expectations for what your kid eats and probably, the frustration that goes with trying to find the vegetable that your kid loves, and so on… you see where I’m going? 😉
I just know that for me, being a parent has forced me to hold myself to a different standard that I might not have otherwise. YMMV
And you know – besides, there are very real things happening in your body after you give birth, lactating eats up a fuckload of calories for example.
My response was to eat EVERYTHING in site. I gained a crazy amount of weight. Something like 85 pounds I think. I clearly remember pulling a STOOL up to the stove so that I could sit while I fried chicken. What a memory, lol. I was huge, miserable, and HUNGRY! 😉
With love and respect, I get the impression that you and I prioritize food for kids in different ways. I don’t think I will feel all that pressured to ensure that my kids have a super super balanced diet. I will do my best and feel ok with that. I’m also not going to feel pressured to force myself to eat food I don’t like in order to be a better role model. That will breed a lot of resentment in me and that is not helpful. 🙂 I think that you have a higher standard than I will have, and that’s ok with me. We knew that I had to be substandard to you in a variety of ways. 🙂
I am coming from a place where I have eaten so badly for long enough that I work towards “better” without trying to convince myself that there is a gold-star standard somewhere I should reach. If I believed that it would just lead to more crushing guilt and anxiety and that really wouldn’t help me.
We knew that I had to be substandard to you in a variety of ways. 🙂
Did we? *ha* funny.
I don’t think it’s about substandard, but everyone places different priorities on a variety of values. It is so true that I have a rigid reality when it comes to food and how my values around food have changed over the years.
I didn’t anticipate forcing food you don’t like, rather, having to work harder to identify things in common with a child that you DO like. It’s a true logistics nightmare to prepare meals for very particular people with different tastes. I thought it was wonderful when you talked about your mom setting stuff aside that was different for you, but I know that I’m not very good at being that mom. I have resorted to making fewer casserole/combined type of dishes and pushing her to be the person who takes responsibility for her plate and preferences.
The resentment is also a very interesting and valid point. Despite the fact that my food issues have evolved since my child was a toddler, (so she has a before and after memory) I do feel frustrated and baffled when she doesn’t agree as a matter of routine. I have the whole, “we both know better, because we learned it together, why are you being such a picky brat about this?” That’s not necessarily the best response, I’m well aware. She is exerting control through food now, obviously, and my hopes and dreams for her health and well being are jerked around over it. (because I let it be) The truth is, she’s beyond my ability to control everything that goes in her mouth. *shrug* I just feel bad when she excludes me from her life by not being wiling to let me cook for her. (If she would just tell me what to cook – I would cooperate a lot of the time, but she wants to dig her heals in no matter what. (i.e. not eat with me, not eat the same thing, not eat home cooked food, etc.)
Oh – and thanks for the love and respect, I treasure that. I have to admit though, that kind of goes without saying unless you notify me otherwise. No need to be gentle. 😉
what you eat will set the stage for what lizard eats – knowing you, you’ll have high hopes/expectations for what your kid eats
This won’t be that important for a while. and I try to eat moderately healthy foods, but we’re fine with eating junk food while feeding Kidlet veggies.
Kidlet is an odd child, anyway – she prefers squash and other veggies to applesauce. So until she’s physically capable of acquiring enough junk food on which to gorge herself, we’re not worrying too much about what she eats, so long as it’s actually food. (Cardboard is not food.)
I agree completely, but I can’t help but chuckle about how quickly that time (between now and acquiring junk to gorge on) will/does pass.
🙂
Anyways, it’s all just star gazing until any of these challenges actually happen. All kids are different, all parents should be to.
I’d be surprised if she wanted to have a McDonalds addicted kid (more common than not), that’s all I really meant in the beginning.
Yeah, I wanna hear this take on “more complicated,” too. I’ve got a few thoughts, but you first.
I don’t know how I missed this post when you posted it the other day, maybe I’m having LJ friend page problems again.
I’m really glad to read this as I’m having similar problems with my pregnancy. I feel like I eat a pretty well rounded diet but I just don’t eat a whole lot! I’m starting to get a little worried, especially since maternity clothes I bought a few weeks ago are now too big in the butt, and even though I’ve gained three cup sized I still weight the same as I did two months ago!
I’m eating lots of dairy but just barely nibbling on meat. I’ve been craving peanut butter toast like crazy though, and pasta makes me happy, but just about anything else I have for force myself to eat! Mr. Spouse keeps telling me I’m fine because of the supplements I’m taking, but I just don’t think that’s a good way to get nutrients. I feel like I’m really running low on CALORIES more than anything else!
As for your lazyweb question, I’d talk to your midwife about it. I know I will next time I see her!