I was talking with someone recently about the idea that someone else believes that she is mature. The person I was talking to and I were a bit… skeptical about this assessment. I brought it up with Noah as a slightly more abstract conversation and he gave me a perspective that I haven’t ever heard before. He said that people like to say they are “mature for their age” and what they mean is they are doing things they were told they can’t do yet due to age. Like drinking before you are 21, this is not actually a sign of maturity–more a sign that you believe that the rules shouldn’t apply to you. I think we mostly agreed that actual maturity is more about learning to accept responsibility for your actions. I would be a bit harsher and say that I think maturity is when you not only have to accept responsibility for your own actions, but when you start actively learning from your mistakes and you stop doing things that have worked out badly for you in the past.
I’m curious though–what do other people think “maturity” means?
Don’t know, I refuse to grow up 🙂
Actuley I think you have a good working Definition there.
*nods* Yes, I can see how not accepting responsibility could be at the root of some of your problems. Refusing to grow up has consequences.
WOOOOW! where the hell did that come from? I make bad choices like everone else, and I own the results. I make amends when I can. What are you talking about?
Lets take this to email if you want to talk about this.
That (probably–I didn’t say it) came from you thinking it was cute to brag about the fact that you refuse to grow up in response to a question about maturity. If you publicly stand up and say, “I’m immature” don’t get pissy when someone says, “Yes, yes you are.”
Well first I was jokeing hence the “:-)”
second ribbin made a very simular not in jest comment and did not get such a strong responce. Perhapes I’m reading too much into it (very posible in a text only format).
Ribbin made a comment that was superficially similar, but that specifically noted that he was willing to bear the consequences (that is, “be responsible”) for his actions. That would be one difference in the response.
Honestly, another difference is probably the spelling errors. While it’s shallow for the world at large to judge you on spelling errors (or hair color, clothes, how much money you have, whether you’re intelligent, your job, your job performance, your body odor, their initial reaction to your body language, and every other perceptible thing about you), they *do* judge you on that. When we come up with a perfect check for your actual worth as a human being, perhaps people will use that. In the mean time we’re likely to note deficiencies in your spelling (and whatever other characteristics we may perceive) and judge you accordingly.
Nota bene: I do not speak for Satyrlovesong, though my immediate visceral response to your post was much like what she wrote. If I know you in real life, I don’t know who you are so I’m judging you purely in LJ-land.
I was going to disagree, because I’ve always refused to take responsibility for my actions. Then again, I’ve also always made it a point to look at mistakes and try to learn from them, so I was going to poke holes in your theory as being inconsistent.
Then I realized that while I refuse to behave like an adult, I do this knowingly, and am willing to accept the occasional shitstorm in exchange for continuing to act like a college student. So I guess it does work. As long as we assume I’m mature- once we change that assumption, your theory becomes invalid, or I become an outlier, or we assumed incorrectly.
Damnit, now I’m all distracted and confused again. Good job:P
*nods* You do accept the consequences of your actions though, and you don’t bitch about them – at least not that I’ve ever heard. You might say “Well, that sucked” but you don’t go on and on about it when you do something irresponsible and then face the consequences.
That shows a thinking maturity, actually. And a bit of a chaotic streak, in the classic D&D sense. *grin*
There is a big difference between being stodgy and accepting responsibility for your actions. Yeah, you are largely a dumbass (love you!)–but you accept responsibility for that. You are paying your bills. You don’t fuck up and try to blame someone else. I have never seen you even once say, “This bad thing is ‘x’ persons fault.” You don’t expect anyone to pick up the slack when you fail to do something. For example: when you’ve had money problems I’ve never seen you cop out and expect your parents to pay for you. No one else has to “fix your problems.”
And what you are terming “acting like a college student” isn’t about maturity or lack of maturity. Just because you don’t want to get married, have a boring ass 9-5, 2.5 kids, and a mortgage does not mean you are immature. None of those things have anything to do with maturity. You don’t like your job so you are trying to find a way to find a career/job/future that suits you better instead of whining about how unfair it is that your job sucks. Sorry buddy, that’s what maturity looks like. 😛
(It’s ok to be mature *and* to stay up late, and work Ren Faire, and eat in a less than healthy way (provided you are aware of the consequences and making a decision), etc…)
make me think, why don’t you?
I had to noodle on this a minute. When I have said “mature for my age” before, when I cared whether or not I was, I think what I meant was that I understood complex social interactions between other people, whether or not I had experienced them first hand myself before.
When I consider someone else “mature for their age”, I think I’m thinking along similar lines. The person in question is able to have empathy for, or at least intellectually understand, complex emotional situations outside of their own feelings.
Wow. I guess I hadn’t realized how closely I associate maturity with empathy before. Certainly that’s a different tack than whether or not the person involved exhibits responsibility. I can appreciate your definition, though! Certainly understanding/empathizing is not enough if one doesn’t act on that understanding…
*ponders and scurries back to work*
As a kid I was described as the 4 year old going on 44. At 12 I was allowed to travel alone around Europe un-escorted because my parents trusted me to be able to take care of myself, at 14 my friends were only allowed to go places by their parents if I was in the group, because they felt having me there was the same as having a parent there.
At 20 I realized I had no idea how to have fun. I had way more freedom at a much younger age, in part because my internal restraints were so strong, but they in their own way were disabling.
I then turned around and tried to have the childhood I never had and am now very attached to my Peter Pan syndrome
But I still don’t drink or do drugs, I have an almost perfect driving record (cross country driving will temporarily throw off my ability to judge speeds), I have never been arrested, I meet all the responsibilities I can’t avoid before the fact, and I am careful about how I spend my money.
I’m also the wolds biggest under achiever, because I can get away with it. And the latter part of that sentence is important. I can and do step up the plate, if I HAVE to, or if someone has to and no one else is doing it, but I’ll avoid it otherwise.
I don’t have kids. But anytime kids are put in my care, even family members who can’t stand me are amazed and thrilled with the results and are very quick to foist the kidlets on me a 2nd time.
I actually think that very very very few people are mature in all ways. They all pick and choose and refuse to see their own particular forms of immaturity as such. The only folks I tend to find as being holy mature, or close to it as no never mind, seem to never ever comment on other people as being mature or not — unless their actually talking to a child.
I certainly don’t think that *I* am wholly mature. 🙂 I’m too petty.
I’ve been hearing people say that I’m “mature for my age” since I was like.. 11. I take it as a compliment, but I never really got what they meant by it. Personally, I don’t know what “maturity” is. (Yeah, I actually made an effort to type out what I thought it meant, but that sort of died) I think I have to agree with you, though, Gibbsy. Accepting responsibility for your own actions.
When spoken by an adult that knows you superficially, “mature for your age” tends to mean sober in bearing, responsible to the extent they can judge (which may be zero), and able to have a conversation with an adult, even on trivial topics. When spoken by a member of your peer group, of about your own age, it tends to mean the opposite — teenagers often say “mature” and mean “willing and able to drink, do drugs, have sex and/or generally break the rules”.
This is a difference in perspective. To an adult, being an adult tends to mean getting along in crowds of people you don’t like, paying the bills, taking care of yourself and putting up with the lousiness of having to take care of yourself. To a teenager, being an adult means “being able to do all those things I can’t do yet.”
I don’t take any particular definition of mature as better, but that’s mostly because this divide isn’t changeable — you can’t keep teenagers from seeing adults differently than adults do. So they will always use the word differently, even if you come up with another word that means the same thing. So it’s not really about who is “right”, but more about who you’re speaking to.
You have been motivating me to post awfully frequently lately. You ask very interesting questions. 🙂
The older I get, the more my view of maturity changes. When I was a kid, I thought I was mature because I had a lot of responsibility and was always the little adult. When I was a teenager I thought I was mature because I always made my own money. When I got out of high school I thought I was mature because I was on my own without any help… and so on, through doing social justice work, starting a small business, having a kid, climbing the corporate ladder, yada yada.
Every time I would notice that I was feeling competent and secure about some aspect of my life, I also noticed a new set of unanswered questions.
I was about 16 years old and frustrated by some disappointment–I don’t even remember what it was–when I asked my mother in exasperation hold old she was when she felt like she was a grown-up and had figured everything out. She burst out laughing, and told me she would let me know if that ever happened.
I am at a point again where I know there are things that I know, and things I am good at. I have become pretty observant, and a little less reactive than I used to be. I also see clearly all the questions I still carry that I have never answered, and many new ones gleaned from my greater capacity for paying attention. I realize that so many things that I thought I knew for sure were products of an insufficiently broad view. For many years I tried to figure out what was right and what was wrong, what made sense and what did not. I am coming to understand how much I did not allow myself to see, just by formulating my questions this way.
These days, I feel at my most mature when I am the least certain. If I feel open, like I am really listening, and can be humble enough to keep myself out of my own way, I feel like I’ve progressed a little bit.
“You have been motivating me to post awfully frequently lately.”
I’ve noticed. 🙂 Yay!
A few years ago I asked my friend Mo when I would feel like a grown up. She had about the same response as your mom. 🙂
I really like this response. It rings pretty true.
Yes, I was going to answer something like that.
There’s always a new maturity hurdle ahead of whatever one you’ve just cleared. Earlier in life, yes, it’s about taking responsibility for your actions. Then you have kids and it’s about learning that your needs are not as important as others’. Then the kids grow up and it’s about learning the boundaries between what you can and cannot control. Then your body starts to show signs of wear, and it’s about figuring out what’s important to accomplish in the time you have left on the planet.
I’m sure there are more after that, but that’s as far as I’ve gotten so far 😉