Of all the parenting decisions that I make I hadn’t thought that not-spanking would be one that became an issue. Really? You think there is no way for me to control my kid without hitting her? Ok, let me back up and explain.
Someone I’ve been friends with for 13 years was over. People who have been in my life this long are given tons and tons of slack for uhm, lets call it quirky behavior. She likes to talk about her cousin who has twin boys about a year older than Shanna. She mentioned that her cousin thinks the kids are now old enough to spank. *blink* I told her that there is zero evidence that spanking is an effective behavior modification tool and lots of evidence that it is not helpful. I stayed pretty calm during that early bit. She kept up arguing that spanking is necessary to control children. ?! What? I started getting upset so I told her that I didn’t want to have this conversation with her because I think what her cousin is doing is wrong. She went on to tell me that she was spanked and she turned out fine. I started losing my temper at this point. I said, “Yeah and I’ve been raped half a dozen times and I turned out fine so obviously we should do that to all the girls.” She said, “You aren’t fine. You have serious psychological issues.” I went from seeing red to seeing white. I wanted to hit her. I had to hold my fists very firmly at my sides. If hitting children is the correct method of behavior modification–maybe I should hit her to modify her behavior? I told her that she isn’t fine. That she is seriously fucked up. At this point she looked like she went over the line into being really really angry.
Then my nephew and his friend arrived. Right then. Perfect timing. I went out to help them get started and I told her that I had to work and be done socializing. She wanted to set up more hanging out soon and I said that we’ll see.
I’m having a lot of trouble with this right now. I want to go down the very long list of ways in which she is not a functional adult and rub her nose in it. I want to do a line by line comparison of how I may have issues but I god damn take care of them whereas she expects her parents to take care of hers. But that’s not helpful.
If she were lecturing me on vaccines or diapers or orororor I wouldn’t have gotten this angry. But seriously–fucking spanking? You think I have to spank to have control? If you have to hit someone to have control over them then you have already lost control. And there probably isn’t any way to get it back.
I think I’m not going to talk to her for a bit. Then I will try to write an email explaining that if we are to remain friends personal attacks aren’t ok. I don’t do them towards her (fantasies in my head aside) and it’s not ok for her to do them towards me. That’s the adult thing to do. But man I don’t want to be an adult. I want to tell her that she is a stupid immature bitch and I no longer want to have anything to do with her. But that’s probably a fleeting feeling. I mean, she is an immature bitch and all, but she has redeeming qualities. I’m sure I will remember what those are in a few days.
FWIW: I think spanking can work fine when it is done in an atmosphere of reason and self-control. *Any* discipline administered by a parent who is enraged, out of control, or vindictive will do far greater damage than a calm, considered spanking.
I don’t think all kids need to be spanked. I do think there are some kids who will go on pushing until a parent must play the “I’m bigger than you and capable of enforcing my will by physical force” card.
If I’d never raised such a child, I’d probably agree with you about spanking… but I did. (As it turned out, I was unable to be a spanking parent because I’m too strongly kinked for spanking… but with a child as strong-willed as Ben, it would have been the preferred solution. The strongest “discipline” I ever had to use with Miles was counting to three, and I never once reached three. Kids vary.)
And, again FWIW, Shanna gives no indication of being such a child.
And your friend had no right to attempt to win the argument with name-calling. OTOH, neither do you.
I had this big ol’ post typed up that basically boiled down to “I agree with you,” with a little bit of “sod the crazy bitch.”
I dunno what to say, other than the last time I saw you I was hit by what a lovely person you are (increasingly, ever since I’ve met you), and what a sweet, well-behaved child Shanna is (most of the time:P).
Parents like you give me hope for the future of humanity. Keep fighting the good fight.
*hugs*
I think that spanking is a choice that people get to make. I can say that I was spanked as a child… but not often and not any time that I can actually remember.
I was more afraid of mom’s “look” than of a spanking….
You know… yeah, parents get to make the choice to spank. There are a few problems with the choice.
A) The only reason people can justify hitting children is because they don’t think of children as real people who deserve body autonomy. For a whole host of reasons I think that sucks. What are you teaching your child they have to accept long term?
B) Hitting a child is teaching your child to be a bully. “When you are bigger and stronger than someone else you can hit them to control them.” Awesome.
C) Hitting is an ineffective behavior modification tool. When you hit a child as a means of getting them to stop (fill in the blank) what you are really teaching them is to not get caught doing (fill in the blank). So I suppose if your goal is to teach your child to be sneaky and a liar spanking is a great option.
“If hitting children is the correct method of behavior modification–maybe I should hit her to modify her behavior?”
Exactly where I went while reading it!
Congrats for not spanking … either your child or those you believe are being childish!
She grew up into someone who thinks it’s okay to hit people who are smaller than her. Wasn’t she spanked for that kind of BS attitude in the past?
If you don’t decide she has redeeming qualities, email her that you’re breaking things off with her because it makes you vomit to hear her brag about her cousin’s abusive parenting. =D
Er, not that spanking necessarily equals abuse, although it is certainly a bad path to go down, I just think your ‘friend’ is acting like the sort of immature bitch who deserves hyperbolic insults.
The thing is, she wasn’t bragging. She likes to start debates she isn’t invested in and play devil’s advocate really hard. It drives me insane when I am invested in the argument and she’s being a shit.
you mean “she’s being a manipulative shit” – doncha?
as a smacked-around-all-the-time child i promised myself i would never strike my kids.
but, i broke that promise.
i spanked both of them exactly once. i didn’t spank them to modify their behavior. i spanked them to punish them for doing things that were very bad (daughter) or very dangerous (son). they were both about 9 or 10 and certainly old enough to recognize what they were doing was wrong and/or stupid.
i needed something very extreme and out of the ordinary to make a huge impression – and it did. they still talk about “the time dad beat us.” that always makes me laugh because they both received exactly 8 swats on their bottoms.
i didn’t spank them when i was angry and i used my bare, opened hand so i knew how hard i was striking them and i nearly puked after each time – it really did hurt me worse than it hurt them.
FWIW I agree with you.
oh, and I was never spanked as a kid.