Shanna’s pediatrician tried really hard to talk me into the H1N1 vaccine. I told him I would go home and do more research. He said that 15% of women in their third trimester who get it have died. That’s scary. Well, yes that does sound scary. Until you go to the CDC site and look at more information. One person died. One. And she had asthma which is a known complication that makes it more likely you will die. And the regular flu vaccine? 90% of people who die from normal seasonal flu are over 65. The other 10% usually have some sort of other medical complications.
Here are some shots I’m skipping, thanks.
My nephew’s school is making it mandatory – they’re vaccinating all the students on the same day, in a couple weeks.
It isn’t legal to make it mandatory. Pretty much every state has a process through which you can file an exception. Schools try really really hard to keep people from finding this out.
I’ve noticed. I’m finding there are a lot of things they try to not let people find out… :/ I’m concerned about how many kids there will end up sick as a result of the vaccine.
But as far as the flu vaccine? I think avoiding it is a good idea. Everything I’ve read makes it sound like the problems it can cause are just as bad as the flu itself, if not worse.
Er, bad edit. That was supposed to be “as far as the flu vaccine for usually-healthy people”…
There’s a mixed bag of results. Vaccines are are a religion. I try really hard not to go down the road of telling people that they can’t have their religion.
I have no objection to people getting the vaccines they want. I am concerned, though, that some people’s choice to get a vaccine could have a negative impact on those around them.
I’ve already had three arguments at school about flu vaccine – or about why I’m not getting it.
I agree vaccines can be like a religion. And like religion, I think it’s not something that should be forced on anyone. 🙂
(I think I’m not phrasing this well, and I apologize for that. I’m fighting with a paper that does NOT want to be written tonight.)
Speaking of pandemics.
When you get a chance, play Pandemic! It’s a game where you create a disease (virus, bacterium or parasite) and try to kill the world:
Link
And the regular flu vaccine? 90% of people who die from normal seasonal flu are over 65
… but how many of them got it from someone under 65 who wasn’t him/herself as badly affected?
That’s what makes me uneasy when I hear about resistance to getting vaccines. Specifically, the concept that people weigh the specific risks and benefits to themselves only, and make the decision based on that, is a concept that I find worrying when it comes to vaccines.
Rightkindofme and her husband have stated before that they do not take the welfare of others into account when making decisions about vaccinations, only the health and well-being of themselves and their child(ren).
Good way to win someone over to your argument, asshole.
I made no value judgment on your risk calculus, I simply stated what you and he have stated before, in nearly as many words.
Some rather ridiculous number of health care workers do not get flu vaccinations–I can’t remember if it is 70% or 90%, I get numbers confused. Health care workers have a much higher impact on people over 65 than I do seeing as I interact with fewer than three a month.
My biggest problem with the herd immunity argument is that vaccines wear off over time and I don’t know many adults who are rigorous about getting their booster shots. I’m not sure if I know a single adult who gets every booster shot. The argument seems to be entirely that children should carry the burden of vaccines because adults can’t be bothered. I have a problem with this argument because if the vast majority of adults are not up to date on their boosters then herd immunity is a questionable concept.
You know E and me. Dr. Charles was rigorous about making sure we kept up with our boosters.
Excellent! I will amend my argument in the future. I do in fact know two adults who are rigorous about keeping up with boosters. 🙂
The “15% of women in third trimester” appears to be incorrect but so is the “one woman dead” statistic. From my quick scan of one review article, it appears the statistic is more likely that 15% of those who’ve died were pregnant:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760905/?tool=pubmed
The numbers still don’t appear to necessitate getting the vaccine. Especially if you aren’t exposing a sensitive population (i.e. not a teacher, not a health care worker, etc). I’m certainly not getting it.
I know you’re generally anti-vaccination, but H1N1 scares me — although I gather the epidemiology is such that you’re at greater death risk than Shanna; most of the victims have been young adults.
My son’s girlfriend lost her best friend to the disease last winter. And my realtor in Oakland writes:
“I’ve been giving most of my friends and family the following thought to ponder, based on my current experiences with Swine Flu: Personally, I’d strongly think about having the flu shot administered, especially the H1N1 variety. I’ve never recommended a flu shot to anyone, viewing it as a personal choice, and I thought that the media was really playing-up the symptoms of this particular flu, but it truly is severe. It’s been extreme, in every way, compared to any other flu I’ve ever had with extended high fever, difficult cough, sore throat, severe weakness, and horrible body aches. So, I think the rewards outweigh the risks in this particular situation. Just my 2-cents, as it’s been a very informative week. It’s now quite easy to see why the CDC has made such a large deal over this particular flu strain. Had I not had my wife available at night to assist me with medicine, food, and drink, things would have gotten out of hand quite quickly. My fever of 103 was not high enough to warrant a hospital admission, but it was high enough to prevent me from leaving the house or even my bed, including procuring food. I don’t have any major underlying health issues, but if I did, who knows what could have taken place and while I’m on the mend, even the recovery has been very slow. So, for what it’s worth, that’s my story/advice. I had to recommend any type of medication to anyone, but in this case I feel compelled to, at the very least, share my story. 🙂 “
I spent a couple of hours last night reading information about it. I know that you worry about disease and I don’t have a problem with you pointing out that H1N1 specifically worries you. From what I can tell from my reading, H1N1 is most likely to be fatal in my age group (which is very unusual for a flu) and whereas I can’t know for sure why that is true I can make a few guesses (hey–that’s all the CDC is doing right now because they aren’t sure). People in my age group are, in general, under the most stress and pressure and the least likely to pay attention if they get sick. When people treat this illness early and aggressively they recover fine. I’m not afraid of being ill. It’s not my favorite experience, but it’s ok. I view it as part of being alive–you get sick sometimes.
People over 65 are just not dying of this disease. The speculation is that it came around many years ago when those people were children and they developed immunity to it. Vaccines wear off over time. What will happen if people get vaccinations this time around and the disease comes around again in 30 years when the vaccines have worn off? The current numbers of people dying will probably be a joke because the over 65 crowd (who are generally more susceptible) will drop like flies. That worries me more than being miserable for a few days now.
Pretty much all viral diseases tend to select by age – Spanish flu took out mostly old people, and there have been flus that targeted children. It does not seem to be behaviorally related.
I question why: a) you feel the need to post so often about your anti-vaccination stance, knowing that many of your readers disagree with you and worry about your health and that of your child; b) why you react to any disagreement with defensiveness, in spite of a); and c) how as intelligent a person as you can resort to magical thinking (“If I notice it early and treat it aggressively it won’t kill me”). Mostly, I question a).
If you choose to take risks with your health, that’s your business — I do many things that I know put me at greater risk of life-threatening disease: I use tanning beds, eat a lot of sugar and red meat, don’t get enough exercise. But I don’t kid myself that I’m doing anything but balancing my own desires against the risks. And I don’t screw around with diseases that could affect anyone but me.
And I don’t ask for my friends’ approval for my behaviors.
Me posting things on my journal isn’t actually about me asking for anyone’s approval. You are free to disapprove of me as much as you like. I post in my journal about things that are going on in my head. People post in their journals about things I dislike or disapprove of pretty much daily. I don’t feel the need to argue with them about their choices.
Apparently in your opinion if I’m going to do something that other people disagree with I should just shut up about it. I’m torn between wanting to a) delete my journal b) unfriend you and put everything behind a friends-only filter c) do nothing because a) and b) are temper tantrum idiotic responses.
I can’t please everyone. No matter what I post about in my journal someone is going to disapprove. I get to post about whatever I want to post about. If you don’t want to read it you can choose not to read it or you can choose not to comment. The fact that you choose to get into arguments about my entries is your choice. I don’t think it is terribly reasonable for you to say, “Stop posting about things that are inflammatory.”
As for getting defensive, that’s a known bug. And it’s my journal. I don’t do it on your journal.