I would really like to post to some of the conversations about the sexism in the dance scene with some inflammatory stuff. Maybe something to the effect of: “Those of you who are saying, ‘Well the dance scene is so much safer than other communities’ are stupid!” BULLSHIT. I know more girls/women who have been raped by other dancers than I know people who have been raped in the bdsm scene. I find that fascinating. I know of FAR more ‘mild’ boundary violations in the dance scene than in the bdsm scene. It is worth pointing out that in my mind the ‘dance community’ sort of loosely enfolds Dickens and Faire as well.
The idea that just because the dancers are a “community” women are safer makes me want to puke.
Come to think of it… this is true for me, as well.
That is probably because there is a 0 tolerance policy in the BDSM scene, where there are only social conventions in the dance community. Come to think of it, there is also very little alcohol and drug related incidents in public bdsm venues, or even private parties.
I feel really bothered by your comment. Not that you said it, but that it is true. Why in the motherfuck isn’t there a zero tolerance policy for rapists in the dance community? I know of a few men where people goddamn KNOW that the slimy fuckers are violating sexual boundaries but no one wants to call them on it. Why? Are dancers that pathetically desperate for male leads?
Is there *really* a zero-tolerance policy in the BDSM scene? Or is there a zero-tolerance-for people-who-aren’t-bisgshots policy?
Faire is different than most dance events, because there’s so much more alcohol there.
How many men are there in the dance scene who regularly violate women’s sexual boundaries? I can think of one that I know of, and those violations have not (that I know) risen anywhere near level of rape, and he’s not around the dance scene much anymore.
I’ve seen some big names have to move cross country in the bdsm scene. And given that the bdsm scene is becoming less and less insular I don’t think that will work for much longer.
Because alcohol is an excuse?
I know of more than one rapist. I feel that violating the confidence of the victims who confided in me would be one more violation they don’t need so I can’t say who the rapists are. I am sad that the victims believe (probably correctly) that they would not be given enough community support to allow them to feel safe enough to speak up.
Because alcohol makes bad things more likely to happen.
Are other women warned about those men in particular as people to watch out for, even if no further details are given?
I don’t know how much women are warned about the men in question, I no longer attend the functions.
People choose to imbibe. We don’t hold drunk drivers less culpable for doing bad things while intoxicated, quite the opposite. Alcohol is not an excuse.
You’ve missed the point.
Which was?
I think what he meant was:
For myself, my radar goes up and I go on alert when I’m around men who have been drinking. The statistics on how much more likely men are to commit it when under the influence of alcohol is fairly alarming. Guys who would never do it sober can be repeat offenders under the influence of booze.
One of the reasons why I think it should be illegal and pot legalized. You just don’t hear about a lot of rapists who were stoned on pot. That and every unoffical test of pot smokers driving finds them less likely to get into accidents than drinkers.
basically what I was thinking. Back when I was in the chicago dance scene, even if a guy was known to let his hands slip, the other girls would (and some of the guys) would let you know. I remember fondly the one country western/biker bar I used to dance at regularly in Chicago (it is no more, sadly) where a girl mentioned having been molested (not raped) by one of the dance guys, and the cowboys dragged him outside and the bikers strongly “suggested” he find someplace else to hang out.
But that can’t happen if the girls don’t out the guy
I’ve seen plenty of “mild” boundary violations in the bdsm scene, too – I don’t know that I’d say it’s any better than the dance scene that way (though I’d believe it’s better than RenFaire), and I’ve seen it take rather too long for someone to get banned because of his persistent violations (though I don’t know that anything he’s done qualifies as rape), just because he was friends with the venue owner.
I don’t know everything that has happened recently in either community–I’m sitting in the cheap seats. I believe you that favoritism occurs.
I can’t say there is truly a zero-tolerance policy in the BDSM scene, but there are a number of factors that at least seem to me to make it much less tolerable in the BDSM scene than perhaps elsewhere (enough qualifiers?). 1) less alcohol at events. Yes, some events happen in bars. Yes, some private events allow alcohol. But my experience in the mid-west, southwest and west coast suggests that most public and many private events have no-alcohol policies. 2) because organizers & attendees *really* don’t want to call in the cops if they don’t absolutely have to, there’s a strong police-yourselves (and even a -or-we’ll-do-it-for-you) attitude. 3) as mainstream as BDSM is becoming, there’s still a great deal of word-of-mouth advertising of people, places & things. We still lean heavily on information gathered through munches, conventions, socials, bulletin boards & newsletters, and so forth to decide where to go, what to do and whom to do it with. Everyone I know strongly advocates gathering references on potential new partners. 4) you can get away with more in larger cities, but many parts of the country have small enough BDSM communities that there just aren’t that many places to go before you’ve pissed yourself out of your own house. Add the advent of intarweb networking and people traveling to conferences & such, and again that word-of-mouth stuff is going to let people know you’re a fuck-up awfully quick. So yeah, there’s not exactly a zero-tolerance policy, but there is an awfully low-tolerance policy.
As for the “except for bigshots” clause – Yeah, celebrity of any sort will blind some folks. Including the celebrity. As K agrees with you, I also have seen favoritism occur, and “we didn’t like you already, so we’ll take this rumor as an excuse to get rid of you, however unsubstantiated the rumor is” occur as well.
Friday Night Waltz (and the Starry Plough) have a policy that complaints of inappropriate behavior can lead to one getting banned, and that both venues have actually banned people (though not many). I don’t know if there are actual policies at PEERS or Gaskells, though I know there are personae non gratia at both. I suspect that if a credible accusation of rape were brought to the organizers of *any* of the dance events, the perpetrator would be banned.
On the other hand, have any of the victims of actual rape gone to the cops? That would certianly make it harder for other people to ignore the incidents, and make it much easier to pressure event organizers to ban those people.
I gently encouraged, but no. As someone who has pressed rape charges I understand why. Rape victims are treated like dirt. They are called liars. They are publicly humiliated. They are told that they must have done something to encourage it.
I don’t blame someone who has already gone through a degrading experience when they don’t want to make it public and add on more trauma. 🙁
I realize that this makes it harder for organizers to do anything about it. I’m not actually censuring Scott or Kathleen and whoever else the other organizers are. What I said was that people have the belief that being part of a community keeps you safer and it is bullshit.
That was pretty much my exact thought on reading this. I don’t know which dance scene this is, nor do I feel intimate with the local BDSM scene, so thank you for confirming my thoughting.
I sit here in stunned silence, not knowing how to react to what are undoubtedly true charges. Truly, it never occurred to me such things were taking place — they are not supposed to happen in my Universe.
Alcohol excuses nothing. If one turns into a rapist when inebriated then, obviously, one should not drink.