I am having trouble understanding an exchange that is going on with my therapist. I would appreciate some feedback on it.
Krissy to Sharon:
10:09 PM
Ok, so tonight wasn’t ok. That was not safe space for me. Tonight your actions said that this was not a place I could go for support unless I was appropriately contained. That means I need to not go back. That’s not ok. I am not there for the sole purpose of not upsetting other people as I grudgingly dole out easy to digest bits to encourage other people as they struggle. No. Just no. I am not in that space.
Sharon to Krissy:
7:54 AM
I am so sorry that you feel unsafe in the group. I am not sure what you are describing here, so if you will tell me more, I will respond. I did not see you doling out easy to digest bits, so I am not sure what you felt you had to hold back on. Can you tell me more about what you are thinking? That said, I have no intention to force you to be somewhere you feel unsafe. I just want to learn from what you have to say.
Sharon to Krissy:
8:07 AM
I’m a muller by nature, so you may get a couple of notes throughout today. I hope I’m not being a pest, and that you know I care quite a lot about your thoughts and feelings.
I have noticed that you are very different when you are in the group as compared with what it is like to be with you in person. You were different again when we went for a walk. In the walk, you felt (sorry, it’s often a somatic experience for me) younger. You were angry, but it was nearly childlike at times. That is NOT disparaging; it’s like that with lots of folks who have survived years of torture. In the group last night, you were different earlier on, and then so dissociated when you told your story. Again, duh. But it was different.
Can you tell me what it was like for you at those times? I think that is an important thing for me to know about.
You said that the silence was hard for you to be with last night. What is it about the silence that felt unsafe?
Krissy to Sharon:
8:26 AM
I’m actually really glad you are poking me because I am sitting here and I cannot figure out how to explain it well. I feel like you and I are developing some bad boundaries. You are kind of treating me as a junior co-therapist in this group. You are not looking at me like I am one of the fucked up women who just shows up at a random sexual assault group, but I am. Just because I have more language for the process does not mean that I am not deep in that muck.
You made a very big deal out of assessing what everyone needed from the process of sharing. We talked about it extensively. I said frequently that I have to have feedback. I have to have something. I went to the group last night feeling like two weeks ago I said “Ok I’ll go second on having the center stage to tell my story”. That is not what happened last night. Last night you poked everyone into sharing stuff. You gave me 5 minutes at the beginning to tell my story and then you spent the rest of the night on the rest of the group. I blabbed stuff out in between other people having turns because I was physically unable to keep my mouth shut. I came there last night for the sole reason that I believed I had an hour to tell my story to women who would listen and give me feedback because a few weeks ago that is what I thought they agreed to.
At the end when I was getting defensive and hysterical you told me I had to stop being present with my story because other people weren’t safe when I express my story. You didn’t give me the feedback I needed to be safe. You didn’t allow me to try to defuse things with humor at all. You acted like I was the rookie therapist and I was pushing people too hard on their process.
Sharon, I was having my process. If I am not allowed to have my process too I cannot go to that group. It is not fair for me to go to that group and have you act like I need to shut down my shit for other people. That’s not a kind of support I have to give to other people right now. That is more burden.
No.
Sharon to Krissy:
11:58 AM
So it seems that we are tangled around overt and covert expectations.
I am really glad that you said that you think I see you as a cotherapist. Actually, I would very much like to avoid just that. Your use of language has not lured me into believing that you should be cofacilitating. I’d like you to feel lighter in that regard. I see you as member of the group, equal in importance to all the other members of the group.
Though I can certainly see how you got there, I did not have the expectation that you were scheduled for sharing your story last night. I had anticipated using the time quite differently, based upon some conversations from the week before when you were not there. It didn’t even cross my mind that you believed that you were on deck, so I didn’t think to check that out with you ahead of time. I was actually very surprised when you began to share at 6:40, as there was no time to set up for it in an intentional way, and there was certainly no time to wrap up in a way that felt useful to you. Your time for sharing your story did not go as you had expected, and absolutely did not proceed in the way that I would have wished for you, as well. I can imagine why that would be incredibly disappointing.
On your expectation of feedback, I think that may be a challenge in this group. The other individuals in the group tend to be very quiet, and they are not prone to expand on what someone is saying. You are very outgoing, but you are the only one wired that way. Even if you ask for feedback, you may not get what you hope for.
I actually disagree with you on a main point, which may provide an interesting discussion for us. I do believe that you need to attend to those around you in choosing how to express yourself and in setting the context. Even though you have center stage when it’s your turn to speak, which means silence on the part of everyone else listening, I still need to attend to how they are doing. If the goal of speaking is simply to speak, then that can be accomplished in solitude. In a group, I believe that the goal is to be heard. In fact, you added to that goal in wanting feedback. That means that you will want to consider the audience when you speak. Choosing words, tone, volume, and body language that can be taken in by others is important to being heard. The breadth of possibility for these things is much greater in a group for survivors, and still you need to think of those who are listening. In this group, where so many dissociate so quickly, that needs to be considered or you will simply not be heard. You will not be responded to if no one is left in the room, physically or emotionally.
Your final paragraph is really interesting to me, and I’d like to know more. I think that you and I may have very different expectations about what it means to be in a community. I’d like to hear more of your thoughts.
Krissy to Sharon:
12:32 PM
Sharon I don’t think you understand where I am right now. I am hiding in the garage. This is day 4. I cannot be near my children. If I go in there I will hurt one of my children. All I can think about is picking Calli up by the ankles and beating her head into the ground to stop the crying. I feel like I probably should be locked in a mental institution. But because of my history that door is closed to me. I have friends with my children all day long because I can not be.
I can not care about supporting anyone else right now and if you think I should be trying you are not the right therapist for me to be seeing right now. Because if I stop and care about making sure I don’t say things wrong I might as well kill myself now.
First, I apologize profusely if I have misinterpreted the situation at hand. Also, I acknowledge that I have made some assumptions in this response, and I apologize if they are incorrect or offensive; that is not at all my intention.
This sounds really tough. It seems like you and your therapist are getting your wires crossed on multiple levels, and that’s really a difficult thing to deal with.
It also sounds like all your emotions are very close to the surface at the moment, and that can make group therapy very difficult; heck, that can make ANY therapy very difficult.
Have you looked into other support groups? I have always found that different support groups vary widely, and that different groups have been more or less beneficial to me at different points in my life. It sounds as though you may need greater support and feedback at this point than this particular group can provide you with. I also might suggest going to a group that is NOT run by your private therapist, so that you have a greater degree of separation and there is less of a chance of being accidentally shuttled into the “junior co-therapist” role; perhaps someone who was hearing about your past with the group, rather than coming in with a preconceived idea about what you have gone through, would be less likely to put some of the burden of “being an example” or co-leading on you, whether or not this role was intended by the therapist.
A lot of what I got from this is that you really need more from the group than you are getting – almost like you are putting more energy in than you are getting back in terms of group response. That’s a really tough situation to be in when you are experiencing strong emotions and memories, and the people in the group are not on the same page/in the same space that you are. I’m not sure that your therapist (who may be a wonderful person, I don’t know her and am in no way disparaging her) is realizing just how serious your situation is as you are reliving these very traumatic memories, or just how very much you are feeling it, and how strong you emotions are right now.
I would not advocate being “locked in a mental institution,” but there are several crisis residential facilities in the Bay Area for women with various issues, including depression and trauma. They are very short term (1-2 weeks), and not meant to be the final solution, only a means of providing a safe space in times of immediate crisis. I think if it has reached the point where you do not feel safe around your kids, this might be an option to consider, if your insurance will cover it or you can afford it. Obviously, that’s between you, your family, and your therapist. Just throwing it out there as food for thought.
Anyway, enough psychobabble. I want to let you know that I am here for you, and you can call me anytime. For serious.
We already talked on the phone but I want other people to know that I appreciate this response. I feel like you made some important observations here.
I’m not going back to this group or therapist but I have calls in with other places because I need to be in therapy right now. I just need to see a therapist who doesn’t gasp in horror when I tell my story and who doesn’t lecture me on how I need to present my graphic, horrible multiple rapes in a nice way.
I know that there are “nice” treatment facilities. But I have been strapped to a table in a mental institution while I screamed and raged. I can’t go back.
If the goal of speaking is simply to speak, then that can be accomplished in solitude. In a group, I believe that the goal is to be heard. In fact, you added to that goal in wanting feedback. That means that you will want to consider the audience when you speak. Choosing words, tone, volume, and body language that can be taken in by others is important to being heard. The breadth of possibility for these things is much greater in a group for survivors, and still you need to think of those who are listening.
I don’t understand why she said this. I don’t see how or why you should choose your words carefully when you’re in a group therapy situation. You needed to be heard and that didn’t happen. I agree with that maybe it would be a good idea to find a group that is not run by your personal therapist.
Also, I don’t believe a therapist should use the word ‘duh’ when responding to a patient. And, how are you supposed to know how you felt when you disassociated? Not all of us who have disassociated really know how that feels.
I love you and support you. That may be all the emotional room I have to spare right now but know that I hold you in my heart and I am rooting for you.
I appreciate what you are doing. You are on a dark road of your own right now. You are reaching out to me as much as you can. It matters and it helps. I love you.
I’m not sure what part of this you’re not clear on, but what I’m hearing is that you want to be heard without needing to filter what you say or how you say it, and your therapists believes that your story needs to come in a particular form (words, tone, volume, body language) both in order for the group to actually hear you and in order for her to “attend to how they are doing.”
Which is pretty much where you started with this conversation with her, I think. Which sounds to me like that group is not a place where you’ll get your needs met.
I’m so sorry that things went poorly. That really sucks.
I feel like her tone sucks. Like she is expecting things of me that are really not ok for me to be required to deliver *for my therapist* at this stage. I mean, my husband and my kids have expectations of me I’m not meeting right now, but that’s different. You know?
Yes. It is okay for you not to deliver on her expectations. And it seems odd that she’d have those expectations in the first place, *especially* given that you’re in crisis right now (although it sounds like she may not have realized that you are in crisis?). In my experience, the point of a therapeutic relationship is to be met where you are, not to ask you or expect you (or tell you) to be somewhere else. Because asking/expecting/telling you to be somewhere else is asking you to be some*one* else, is ultimately telling you that who you are right now isn’t okay. And THAT is not okay.
It is okay for you to be yourself, Krissy, and to feel what you’re feeling, and to need to express it. I hope that you have an easy and quick path to finding someone who can hear you right now. And you are still and will continue to be in my thoughts.
I feel like you nailed a lot of my issues with her. She has expectations of me she shouldn’t have. That feels bad. It feels like I am failing her to and god I don’t need that.
Choosing your words carefully is for getting a specific desired response from an audience. To get authentic feedback you tell the TRUTH how it happened and how it was.
The only acceptable way to modify your story to fit the group (knowing that they’re not good at talking about others stories) would’ve been to preface it with an acknowledgment that it is a hard story to listen to* and by encouraging them to speak up about any part however small.
*Full disclosure, if it were my first introduction to your story, I wouldn’t be able to listen to it properly. I don’t do well with auditory-only input on anything at all complicated. And I don’t do well with heart-breaking that I can’t fix. I read your story by skimming through (getting and instant impression in that quick read), going back up and reading small bits here and there more carefully, then going back down the post reading word for word.
And I’d have a horrified look on my face if you were telling me this in person. And I promise to you that the look would be that people like your family exist in this world and walk free.
Oh, and I could see the therapist not wanting to trigger breakdowns in all the other women in the group (think how often relatively mild things are labeled with ‘warning may be triggering’ and then compare how much more triggering your story would be) but she should’ve fucking known that was a risk and talked to you about that specifically weeks ago before you ever made a decision about whether to attend the group or not.
I’ve never been to a support group, but her expectations seem pretty ridiculous to me. She already knows a chunk of your story, if she feels it’s too triggering for the situation the rest of the group is in she shouldn’t have asked you to go to that support group. Or she should have at least discussed that with you in advance, or with them in advance, or SOMETHING. The way this happened seems pretty wrong to me, and none of the wrong is from you.
Babbling out pieces of story would, I would think, be what a support group should be FOR and understand.
The only even vaguely useful thing I can think of to say is that right now, it seems like a group, any group, is not going to work for you. With the intensity of how you are processing right now, you need more direct and focused attention than a group could reasonably give you.
I may have missed this in other parts of your stories – why are you going to a support group versus having one-on-one therapy? I’m sure you have a reason (or three), I just don’t remember reading it.
She’s doing both.
Thanks.