My good friend points out that her mom has an RV. This is true, but an RV probably gets somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 the gas mileage of my van and I bitch about the van a lot in terms of paying for gas. So far it looks like the trip will be in the neighborhood of 10,800 miles +/- at least 500 miles. (The absolute minimum will be 10,300 to go between the major cities I’m hitting.) If I assume an average of $3.40 for gas (it is lower and higher in different places) and 22 mpg in the van (that’s averaging freeway and city) that means I’ll be paying somewhere between $1600 and $1700. I think I should *assume* I need at least $2000 for gas and budget $2500 just so I don’t get fucked by spending more time in places where gas is closer to $4.00. I worry a lot about doubling or tripling that.
And if I have an RV then I have to find *RV appropriate parking* every day. And I can’t drive it up and down the streets of say, Chicago looking around because I will hit something because my depth perception isn’t the best ever in the history of ever. (It’s important to know yourself.) You know how most people describe themselves as better than average drivers? Not me! I’ve banged up a lot of cars. I’m not cocky about my driving or parking ability any more. I used to be. Then I grew more self aware.
So an RV sounds like a great option but I’m afraid I would break it or something nearby and I worry about going from RV camp site to RV camp site with very little ability to do anything else. I sure as fuck won’t be pulling a car. I do not want that responsibility.
Know your limits.
But I’ve been thinking more about the van. By the time we do the cross-country trip Shanna will be 7. I’m pretty sure that even though I have a high back booster seat with a five point harness that goes to like 120 lbs she would be capable of sitting in a low back booster with just a seatbelt. Is it “as safe”? No. It’s not. It is more of a risk. But if I have one 5 year old in a high back booster with harness and one 7 year old in a low back booster I can put both of them on the very back bench seat when we drive and take the car seats out and stow them on the passenger seat when we are parked.
I could find a double futon mattress on the internet for under $200. I could roll the mattress up and store it where the second row seats go while we drive. (The second row seats would obviously be staying home with Noah.) That way the girls and I could handle sleeping in the van every night. I’ve tried it with just camp mattresses and blankets as cushion and it’s rough because there are a lot of big pointy metal bits that are used for holding the seats in. Very uncomfortable on the back. With a mattress I think it would be fine.
I’m beginning to think I may need to build myself a cookbox though because I can’t find what I’m thinking of in my head. I would want something light enough for me to move it around easily. Most of what I can find premade would wear me out just moving it back and forth several times a day.
I’m thinking really hard about how I’m going to manage spoons on the trip. I will need to be cheerful and willing to do a fuckton of work every day or we will hemorrhage money. That means I need to figure out how to get the work down to under two hours a day on top of driving four hours. Six hours of concentration and labor is about my limit before I start getting snappy about interruptions and things that set me back a whopping five minutes. Yes, I’m that big of an asshole.
But if I observe my limits I can be patient within what I can handle. I won’t be inviting anyone to travel with us because my experience of traveling with people is I plan out my work then they want something done in a different way and I panic and turn into a less than pleasant person. Then they don’t like me any more. Best to go it alone.
I’m thinking hard about food. I think we will bring a cooler and go grocery shopping every second or third day. My kids are very happy to subsist semi-permanently on granola and yogurt and fruit parfaits and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I may have to suck it up and eat more pbj’s just for the sake of ease. At this stage Shanna is pretty proud of herself for “making lunch for the family” and she sometimes brings me a pbj I didn’t ask for just because she wants to be able to do something for me. I don’t bitch even though I am not a peanut butter fan. I am effusive in my praise of her labor. “You wanted to make me lunch! That is so kind of you. Thank you for going through all that trouble!” Who gives a shit if I don’t like peanut butter. I make them eat shit they aren’t enthusiastic about. Eat it and smile, motherfucker.
I have the sneaky suspicion that the only way I would be happy with a rote dinner would be if I made ramen or something similar every night. However I think I might be willing to “splurge” and get some of the freeze dried camping meals. Or figure out how to make the same thing at home for less money. “Add water and you have a meal with a different flavor” is worth $8-$9/dinner for me. It helps that the three of us would easily eat one packet of food and not be starving. I wonder how much Shanna will eat by then? So far all three of us eat a one person entree without additional hunger. At some point that will change.
Or we could have days where we plan to really cook and that’s a lot cheaper. I could manage lentils and such. Mmmm lentils.
Three annual passes for Disney World will be about $2200 depending on how much they raise the price next year. That sounds absolutely horrid. But we will be there for about five weeks straight. (35 days) That comes out to ~$63/day for entertainment for three people or $21/person/day. That’s not cheap by any measure. But it’s probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for my kids. And they will be 7 and 5. The perfect ages to really remember this. And I’ll take millions of pictures. I am scared I will be the asshole who doesn’t have fun.
I think that if I stick with my approach to theme parks that I use at Disneyland I will be ok. We are rarely in the park for five hours. Usually we crap out at four hours and go do something else for the rest of the day. There are four big “theme” parks and two water parks on property. A lot of the point of the trip is we will hotel hop around the resort and spend a few days going to one park then a few days going to a different park based on which activity is closest to where we are staying at that point.
I’m pretty interested in seeing most of the DVC (time share) properties because man that sounds fun. They have a lovely service where they will move your bags from hotel to hotel for you. So I will have to pack up (but I’ll be used to that) but I won’t have to schlep. I think that will be a fun trade for me.
Or I’ll hate it and talk shit about this trip forever. I am sometimes like that. Although in the rosy glow of memory I don’t remember the problems I’ve had on almost any of my trips. I mean, the worst thing I really remember about the Scotland trip was beating my head on the ground after I was awake for seven days straight because I couldn’t get the voices to stop any other way. Then I went to the store and bought sleeping pills and the trip improved immeasurably. Ok, the hotel staff in France were assholes. But I knew that anyway.
I don’t think I’ll ever travel without sleeping pills again.
The Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival will cost ~ $1,000. But it will be food inclusive for a week and that will be nice. And it will pay for a lot of childcare so I can wander around have multiple hours off every day. I’m such an asshole that I think going to an event where they will take care of my kid for the cost of admission is uhm a good trade. (I will have to do volunteer hours in child care and that’ll be dandy.)
So that’s already $5,000 needed. Ouch. Then we talk about food and equipment. And spending money. I think this trip will cost at least $9,000 and potentially up to $12,000 depending on how restrained I am. Uhm, since I married this rich guy my restraint went to hell. The Scotland trip ended up being almost $5,000 over budget. I can save money at home. I’m *shit* at doing it while I travel. Unless I eat very unhealthy food and don’t move around much. Which is kind of the point of travel. You can travel much less expensively if you go to one place and then walk from that spot. I don’t do that. I go to some place then drive around and take the train and shop. Oops.
I’m thinking hard about this because if I need to have at least $12,000 saved for this trip that means I need to think about it far in advance of the trip. We would probably leave in less than 18 months (the leave date isn’t locked in stone yet). That’s not many months if I have to save that much money for this trip.
I also need to continue over paying on my mortgage. And putting money aside for the around-the-world trip. And kid college saving. And my retirement. So the farther in advance I start thinking about where the money goes the more self-discipline I will be capable of having month-by-month between now and then. Over the next 18 months I would like to save $12,000 for this trip, $11,000 for retirement (not counting the 401k that happens before I see the money), ~$6,000 for kid college fund stuff, and I would like to spend $60,000-$70,000 on my mortgage. And whatever I can shuffle off towards the around-the-world trip because I’m not quite 1/3 of the way towards paying for that. Which is pretty good given that it is still six years out. (Ok, let’s be fair. This isn’t about my self-discipline this is about Noah being freakishly good at making money. I don’t get that much credit.)
So in the next 18 months assume I want to come up with at least $90,000. That’s not including the rest of our living expenses. So $5,000 a month over and above our normal living expenses. (Ok, mortgage is usually part of our living expenses but the overpayment bit only sort of is and… you know what I mean.)
The part that makes my wame curdle is that with just a little bit of discipline that is totally doable. But I’ll have to be disciplined. And cut a bunch of expenses somehow. Oh man. Hrm. And no more big house projects until after 2020. That’s the big thing. Ok.
Yay!
That’s amazing that the Michigan Womyn’s festival offers childcare. I’ll have to look into it.
I’ve done a fair bit of road trips in my life, as has Jonno, and we’d be happy to share our advice or experiences if you are interested. We drove across the US on Interstate 40, we’ve gone from Knoxville to Rhode Island via Interstate 81, and we’ve spent a decent amount of time in Florida (mostly Deland, Orlando, and Jacksonville, plus a week or so in Mexico Beach) since most of Jonno’s extended family is out there. Jonno’s spent time on the northern W->E route including Yellowstone, and I’ve spent a decent amount of time in the southwest.
I remember getting stuck in timeshare presentations in Hawaii and Disneyland and hated it as a little kid, we were stuck for hours because they took us on shuttles away from our cars. My parents love timeshares now, though. I’d dig hearing your experiences and understanding more about what they are.
I’m curious- why not use air mattresses in the car?
You and yours are of course welcome to stay at our place as long as we still live here. I understand if the dogs etc. are an issue.
Also I remember being proud of my ‘cooking’ when I made PB & for myself in my 20’s so I think your kids are off to a fine start 🙂
I would be very interested in hearing about your experiences. 🙂 So far it looks like I would be more or less going 80 -93 – 84/86 – 15 – 94. I have a friend in Duluth I really want to see. 🙂
Timeshares are a mixed bag. I would cheerfully tell you all about it in your living room. 🙂
air mattresses — probably bc those pointy metal bits on the floor that hold the seats in place, right? And I imagine the kids would just loooove to jump on an air mattress and pop that sucker.
Where do you find bathrooms when sleeping in the car instead of motel rooms? With two kids and an iffy tummy, that would be a big concern for me.
Well I’m looking into bringing a bucket toilet with me. REI has them for under $20.
Hi Krissy, Michelle told me about your plans and we are both hoping that some of our experiences can save you time and trouble. I grew up with a lot of roadtrips. My Dad’s parents used to drive him & his brothers from Florida through Yellowstone and the Rockies every summer. My grandparents expanded that trip to include the Canadian Rockies after the boys moved away and continued to do so until their health no longer allowed it. When my family was younger we did the bulk of our vacation traveling by car from NY to FL every winter and summer to see the relatives and then from NY to CA when we moved and then from the Bay to OR, NV and SoCal every chance we got.
My family moved from Long Island NY to Stanford CA when my brother was 6 and I was 9. We did it in the smallest compact car Subaru sold at the time. My parents planned to spend about a month on the road, camping 2/3 of the time.
One thing both of them have said was very helpful was the kid box. It was a plastic milkcrate that sat between my brother and I in the back and contained books, a tape player, tapes and other toys. The items in the box were slowly rotated as we acquired new things over the course of the trip and I suspect my parents brought a few things with that were only added halfway through. Additionally it created a barrier that was difficult to reach over/across and gave both of us a greater sense of privacy. All in all my parents have told me it was a great success and they are both grateful they had it.
My brother and I have both been pretty self directed when it comes to entertainment all our lives. Give either of us a steady supply of books and some music and we’re good indefinitely. For kids who need a bit more interaction/direction sing alongs have worked really well when traveling with various of my cousins. Come to think of it we actually had a few different albums of U.S. folks songs for kids with lyric/coloring books that were a huge hit on our trip cross country.
I said earlier we planned to camp 2/3 of our nights on the road. My Mom tells me we actually ended up camping a little less than half. Camp grounds in national and state parks fill up quickly so reservations must be made well in advance and schedules like all the best laid plans of mice and men…you get the idea. Outside of that you’re looking at places like KOA (Kampgrounds of America). After the 2nd or 3rd time we were unable to sleep due to loud parties going on at the campsite we pretty much gave up on those. In a van you’ve a few other options. Walmart’s corporate policy is to allow people in vehicles to spend the night in their parking lots so you can at least count on a relatively safe place to catch a few hours anywhere there’s a Walmart with clean toilets to use when you wake up. Truck stops and travel stations that cater truckers will usually have showers you can pay to use. I always enjoyed staying with my parents friends when we traveled. Sleeping in an actual home with a warm meal and warm showers has always seemed to have a magical ability to cure road fatigue to me. Additionally when I was in New Orleans this past summer there were 3 families traveling with children and staying at the Hostel I was at. A hostel can be a cheap way to break up the monotony, get a warm shower and give you a place to replenish your stores of food with some cook time in a real kitchen. I got a real kick out of having them around and the kids seemed to be having a lot of fun meeting new people and helping out around the place. I know another big reason we we ended up going with motels more than expected was setup. Driving is fatiguing and if you’re camping with small kids then you expect about an hour set up/take down. Some nights, more nights than my parents expected, all you have the energy to do is haul a bag to a room and collapse onto a bed. Additionally with camping you’re limited by daylight. Setting up a tent in the dark, by yourself, while managing kids can be a dicey proposition.
My Dad and I can both be reaaaaaaaaally unpleasant to travel with when we’re trying to keep a schedule. However, as a kid, some of my favorite memories are of the random places we visited on the way. There are all sorts of wonderful little spots that you won’t know about until you see the billboard telling you to get off at the next exit. Allowing yourself the time to take advantage of that is, in my opinion, one of the keys to successful roadtripping. Two spots in particular that we found on our first roadtrip from the Bay to Ashland OR for the Shakespeare festival became spots we returned to every single year after. Most of the unpleasant interactions I can remember having with my parents while roadtripping came about due to something delaying us beyond what was expected and, my father in particular, then feeling we “have to” make up the delay. Delays are inevitable. I’ve found the more flexible I can be about it the more I enjoy the trip and the more others enjoy being around me.
As far as specific places to go. I still remember Yellowstone very vividly. Herds of Bison sometimes blocking the road, bubbling mudpots, geysers, gorgeously multicolored hotsprings. There’s no other place like it in the U.S.
I remember Lake Superior having some amazingly beautiful beaches and just being blown away by the idea of all that water not being an ocean.
St. Louis Zoo is one of the largest zoos in the country and one of the only wholly donation funded zoos in the world. No admission. http://www.stlzoo.org/visit/hourspricesdirections/
Just southwest of St. Louis are a bunch of Parks protecting various pieces of the Ozark Mountains. Michelle and I took a brief sidetrip into the southern Ozarks down in Arkansas and loved how beautiful they were.
Mammoth Caves in Kentucky is one of the largest cave systems in the U.S. and has some pretty neat tours, including an old town in the caves where people with tuberculosis used to be sent in the belief the dry air in the caves would be good for them.
Also in Kentucky, off I75 on the way to Knoxville, is the Kentucky Reptile Zoo. Really cool place, internationally know venom farm, really nice people. http://www.kyreptilezoo.org/
There are all sorts of wonderful places to go in Florida. All my extended family is down there so I’ve spent my entire whole life visiting that state. One of my favorite places to visit was Silver Springs. It recently closed and then re-opened as a State Park. They kept the glass bottom boat rides though so I’d say it’s still well worth the visit. http://www.floridastateparks.org/silversprings/default.cfm
Sorry if I blew up your comments section a bit. I hope this helps and am happy to talk more about this if you would like.
This is great! Thank you so much for all of your pointers. 🙂 I will carefully place them against my current working planning forms.
The main thing I will address is the idea of “delays”. I’m somewhat deliberately putting in 2-3 day gaps for “catch” up at just about every major city (or camp area) I want to hit. I’m hoping I don’t hose myself. I am very consciously planning to not drive more than 300 miles in a day more than a couple of times. I’m hoping that if I only plan for 4 hours of driving in a day I won’t get too behind…
I’m very worried about my ability to “camp”. Which is why I’m thinking sleeping in the van is a better option than driving the car (better gas mileage) where I would *have* to set up a tent each time. That way most of my “set up camp” activity is rolling out the bed and eating food. I’m trying to figure out how to make food a process I can handle and enjoy for about four months.